Comments on: Do you own your germs? My new piece for the New York Times on micro-bioethics http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/12/04/do-you-own-your-germs-my-new-piece-for-the-new-york-times-on-micro-bioethics/ Mon, 04 Feb 2013 17:13:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: A Trojan Horse to fight disease… « science left untitled http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/12/04/do-you-own-your-germs-my-new-piece-for-the-new-york-times-on-micro-bioethics/#comment-17245 A Trojan Horse to fight disease… « science left untitled Wed, 29 Feb 2012 18:44:19 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5267#comment-17245 [...] providing the nutrients that we are unable to synthesize ourselves, and generally contributing to our being — the tsetse fly also contains bacteria (bacterial endosymbiont). Sodalis glossinidius is one [...] [...] providing the nutrients that we are unable to synthesize ourselves, and generally contributing to our being — the tsetse fly also contains bacteria (bacterial endosymbiont). Sodalis glossinidius is one [...]

]]> By: A Trojan horse to fight trypanosomes » End the Neglect http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/12/04/do-you-own-your-germs-my-new-piece-for-the-new-york-times-on-micro-bioethics/#comment-17244 A Trojan horse to fight trypanosomes » End the Neglect Wed, 29 Feb 2012 18:00:56 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5267#comment-17244 [...] providing the nutrients that we are unable to synthesize ourselves, and generally contributing to our being — the tsetse fly also contains bacteria (bacterial endosymbiont). Sodalis glossinidius [...] [...] providing the nutrients that we are unable to synthesize ourselves, and generally contributing to our being — the tsetse fly also contains bacteria (bacterial endosymbiont). Sodalis glossinidius [...]

]]> By: 2011: A Letter from the Loom | The Loom | Job Application Letter http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/12/04/do-you-own-your-germs-my-new-piece-for-the-new-york-times-on-micro-bioethics/#comment-17243 2011: A Letter from the Loom | The Loom | Job Application Letter Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:59:48 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5267#comment-17243 [...] check a blood forms today. But all this new believe about a microbiome will move us astonishing  ethical quandaries, some of that we discussed in Dec in the New York [...] [...] check a blood forms today. But all this new believe about a microbiome will move us astonishing  ethical quandaries, some of that we discussed in Dec in the New York [...]

]]> By: Gregg Johnson http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/12/04/do-you-own-your-germs-my-new-piece-for-the-new-york-times-on-micro-bioethics/#comment-17242 Gregg Johnson Wed, 07 Dec 2011 03:48:32 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5267#comment-17242 Basically you are a cultivating farmer and your body is the farm. You will harvest the results of years of your farm cultivating an interactive flora that resides well enough with your other flora. You have the right to keep them to your self or sell them off to a proper distributor. The problem is a distributor has the ability to continue to grow your flora, on their own, bypassing your rights to ownership. copyright, patent, trademark... or trade secret you should decide and do it early before others can grow your germs. The poop-enema comes to mind. Good luck. Basically you are a cultivating farmer and your body is the farm.
You will harvest the results of years of your farm cultivating an interactive flora that resides well enough with your other flora.
You have the right to keep them to your self or sell them off to a proper distributor.
The problem is a distributor has the ability to continue to grow your flora, on their own, bypassing your rights to ownership.
copyright, patent, trademark… or trade secret you should decide and do it early before others can grow your germs.

The poop-enema comes to mind.
Good luck.

]]> By: Connor http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/12/04/do-you-own-your-germs-my-new-piece-for-the-new-york-times-on-micro-bioethics/#comment-17241 Connor Tue, 06 Dec 2011 18:05:35 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5267#comment-17241 A lot of research - including my own - is done through the use of clinical samples of particular pathogens. Once isolated and characterized, you can get a lot of research mileage out of them. This has been going on for over 100 years though isn't this really the same as this recent microbiome bioethics debate? A lot of research – including my own – is done through the use of clinical samples of particular pathogens. Once isolated and characterized, you can get a lot of research mileage out of them. This has been going on for over 100 years though isn’t this really the same as this recent microbiome bioethics debate?

]]> By: Mike Lewinski http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/12/04/do-you-own-your-germs-my-new-piece-for-the-new-york-times-on-micro-bioethics/#comment-17240 Mike Lewinski Tue, 06 Dec 2011 16:13:03 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5267#comment-17240 Nice answer Tanya, I agree with open source as well. And that is an interesting question that leads me to interesting places. Maybe we're bacterial computers, evolved for the purpose of defending them against impact events--a sort of planetary immune system. It makes a nice metaphor since so often it is the fever from our immune system overreaction that kills us, and not the pathogen's direct activity. I'm inspired by Lewis Thomas on the immune response to gram-negative bacteria: <em>All of this seems unnecessary, panic-driven.... It is, basically, a response to propaganda...we tear ourselves to pieces because of symbols, and we are more vulnerable to this than to any host of predators. We are, in effect, at the mercy of our own Pentagons, most of the time.</em> There are other uses for a bacterial computer I suppose. Maybe the bacteria have decided to explore the universe. Maybe they just wanted twinkies. Nice answer Tanya, I agree with open source as well. And that is an interesting question that leads me to interesting places.

Maybe we’re bacterial computers, evolved for the purpose of defending them against impact events–a sort of planetary immune system.

It makes a nice metaphor since so often it is the fever from our immune system overreaction that kills us, and not the pathogen’s direct activity.

I’m inspired by Lewis Thomas on the immune response to gram-negative bacteria: All of this seems unnecessary, panic-driven…. It is, basically, a response to propaganda…we tear ourselves to pieces because of symbols, and we are more vulnerable to this than to any host of predators. We are, in effect, at the mercy of our own Pentagons, most of the time.

There are other uses for a bacterial computer I suppose. Maybe the bacteria have decided to explore the universe. Maybe they just wanted twinkies.

]]> By: Tanya McPositron http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/12/04/do-you-own-your-germs-my-new-piece-for-the-new-york-times-on-micro-bioethics/#comment-17239 Tanya McPositron Tue, 06 Dec 2011 14:58:37 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5267#comment-17239 And the answer is: No. Germs are open source. The more appropriate question is this: Do they own us? And the answer is: No. Germs are open source. The more appropriate question is this: Do they own us?

]]> By: World’s Strangest | Who Owns the Rights to Our Germs? http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/12/04/do-you-own-your-germs-my-new-piece-for-the-new-york-times-on-micro-bioethics/#comment-17238 World’s Strangest | Who Owns the Rights to Our Germs? Mon, 05 Dec 2011 23:40:57 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5267#comment-17238 [...] Bioethicists are wrangling with the notion of microbe ownership. Carl Zimmer, whose navel microbes have already been posted at Neatorama, writes about the issues involved at the New York Times. Link -via The Loom [...] [...] Bioethicists are wrangling with the notion of microbe ownership. Carl Zimmer, whose navel microbes have already been posted at Neatorama, writes about the issues involved at the New York Times. Link -via The Loom [...]

]]> By: Mike Lewinski http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/12/04/do-you-own-your-germs-my-new-piece-for-the-new-york-times-on-micro-bioethics/#comment-17237 Mike Lewinski Mon, 05 Dec 2011 20:48:24 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5267#comment-17237 Do you know how that figure of 100 trillion microbes is calculated? I've seen several sources claim that we are only about 10% human by cell count and the number of somatic cells is 10^13 while the microbes are 10^14. <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/11/how_many_cells_are_there_in_th.php" rel="nofollow">This blog suggests that we have more like 50 trillion somatic cells</a> based on weight. I'm guessing that microbe numbers aren't estimated by weight as I don't see any easy way to weigh just their mass which, given the relative difference in sizes, is probably quite small. Do you know how that figure of 100 trillion microbes is calculated? I’ve seen several sources claim that we are only about 10% human by cell count and the number of somatic cells is 10^13 while the microbes are 10^14.

This blog suggests that we have more like 50 trillion somatic cells based on weight.

I’m guessing that microbe numbers aren’t estimated by weight as I don’t see any easy way to weigh just their mass which, given the relative difference in sizes, is probably quite small.

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