Comments on: Ballet postures have become more extreme over time

By: E. Brown

E. Brown — Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:12:04 +0000

Surely the development of contemporary dance over the 20th c has an effect on audience esthetics, and what they find attractive?
One of the goals of contemporary dance was to question the assumptions and traditions of ballet, and to challenge conventions – from basic postures onward.
While conservative, I don’t think folks as creative as dancers, choreographers and musicians are completely static, and are bound to be influenced by the challenge that contemporary presented to ballet.
Those who enjoy contemporary dance, both performers and audiences, would bring their tastes to the ballet with them.

By: Dale

Dale — Tue, 05 May 2009 19:08:42 +0000

Anecdotally, I’ve noticed that gymnastics and cheerleading have also become more extreme just in my lifetime. To me it seems that grace falls by the wayside while athletics takes over.
My daughter was a cheerleader in high school, and she always wanted to emphasize doing the motions correctly and “prettily”. For example, with a toe touch, where you jump straight up and kick both legs out at once, your legs should be perfectly level and your toes pointed, your back straight, arms even. But most cheerleaders now tend to go past level with their legs because it looks more strenuous, and they don’t pay attention to their toes or to their posture.
The problem is that audiences are wowed by athleticism and don’t seem to value the beauty of grace in performance. As Katherine Kanter points out, ballet has become more like a sport than a form of dance, and I would say this is true of other forms of dance as well. Just look at ballroom dancing, tango, even flamenco, to name a few.

By: Karen James

Karen James — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:12:03 +0000

Fascinating post, Ed, which I found via the PloS competition, which I found via your tweet today.
Sceptics might argue that these trends could just reflect a sampling bias, where later images were chosen for their more extreme postures.
There are other things sceptics might argue, though, including this: how do the authors know the photographs were always taken at the posture’s climax? Maybe the postures have stayed the same over the years, but photographers are now better at capturing the precise moment when the leg is at its most extreme angle.

By: jane goodall

jane goodall — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 02:50:27 +0000

Given the growing interest in epigenetic change, and some of the more recent research findings - see for example article by Emily Singer Feb 4, 09 at http://www.technologyreview.com - has anyone looked into the factor of hereditary capacity in dancers, acrobats and gymnasts?

By: katharine kanter

katharine kanter — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 21:52:29 +0000

I’ve now read the full article Mr. Jong refers to. Although the authors use scientific jargon, their actual premises – and arguments – are anything but scientific.
The first, and most obvious question, is whether what we are seeing on stage now is still “classical dance” – which is an art form, or SOMETHING ELSE masquerading under that name, but which is actually a SPORT.
Words – “artistic”, “expression”, “tradition”, are just ciphers. But what do they MEAN? I am not at all sure that the authors have a clue.
Secondly, they appear to live in a value-free zone. The most obvious value, in anything that has to do with MAN, is the integrity of that temple of the soul, the body. Thanks to these “extreme postures”, the career of a professional dancer has been shortened by ten to fifteen years, over the last decade. We are seeing accidents of a kind, and of a severity, such as pelvic and spinal fracture, hitherto unknown in the profession. This is not an “epiphenomenon” – it is a phenomenon at the core of what currently passes for “classical technique”, and that I would venture to suggest is neither classical, nor, in terms of its teleology, technique.

By: Eric Michael Johnson

Eric Michael Johnson — Sat, 04 Apr 2009 17:18:04 +0000

Congratulations! Great article. I was reminded of a news story about how the demands of the crowd have pushed professional athletes to new breakthroughs in speed, dexterity and strength. Of course, this has also led to many of the abuses in professional sports today. The only “juicing” that Babe Ruth ever did before a game was five fingers of rye.

By: Comrade PhysioProf

Comrade PhysioProf — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 16:38:01 +0000

Fascinating shit, holmes!

By: Patrick Haggard

Patrick Haggard — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:23:36 +0000

These comments are all very stimulating. Our conjecture in the article is also of a feedback loop (as Palmyrah comments), but an aesthetic one rather than a sexual one. Artistic culture seems to sustain these kind of feedback processes rather well. In our case, it’s interesting that these changes happen even though the choreography is supposedly fixed.

By: MattK

MattK — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 05:11:09 +0000

Congrats on winning the PLoS One blog post contest!

By: Frank the SciencePunk

Frank the SciencePunk — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 19:45:05 +0000

Congratulations, this is indeed a very good article.