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	<title>Comments on: Meet the owner of the world&#8217;s largest collection of frozen elephant feet</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/12/22/6054/</link>
	<description>Dive into the awe-inspiring, beautiful and quirky world of science news with award-winning writer Ed Yong. No previous experience required.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 26 May 2012 10:52:26 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/12/22/6054/comment-page-1/#comment-83736</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2012 03:25:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=6054#comment-83736</guid>
		<description>I was just wondering you said that a lot of the feet you have studied have been zoo animals, which i&#039;m guessing are all asian elephants, do you think that the african elephant have some differences.  
You also mentioned it would be good to study some wild elephants. have you ever thought of getting in contact with the people involved with culling elephants and seeing if you could get hold of some specimens that way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just wondering you said that a lot of the feet you have studied have been zoo animals, which i&#8217;m guessing are all asian elephants, do you think that the african elephant have some differences.<br />
You also mentioned it would be good to study some wild elephants. have you ever thought of getting in contact with the people involved with culling elephants and seeing if you could get hold of some specimens that way?</p>
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		<title>By: John Hutchinson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/12/22/6054/comment-page-1/#comment-69858</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hutchinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2012 06:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=6054#comment-69858</guid>
		<description>Thanks again for your comments, Dave! Yes, I know Daniel&#039;s work quite well. I think there are some interesting analogies between humans&#039; foot function and elephants&#039;, yes, although huge differences too of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks again for your comments, Dave! Yes, I know Daniel&#8217;s work quite well. I think there are some interesting analogies between humans&#8217; foot function and elephants&#8217;, yes, although huge differences too of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/12/22/6054/comment-page-1/#comment-69430</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave O'Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Here&#039;s a link to a couple short videos about Daniel Lieberman&#039;s research: http://harvardmagazine.com/2011/01/skull-session</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a link to a couple short videos about Daniel Lieberman&#8217;s research: <a href="http://harvardmagazine.com/2011/01/skull-session" rel="nofollow">http://harvardmagazine.com/2011/01/skull-session</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dave O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/12/22/6054/comment-page-1/#comment-69429</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave O'Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=6054#comment-69429</guid>
		<description>Wow, thanks so much for responding to my post, Dr. Hutchinson!  Fascinating stuff.  Reminds me a bit of the research being done by Daniel Lieberman at Harvard University.  He has studied how humans evolved the ability to be endurance runners, theorizing that early humans were able to chase down game by running after animals for long periods of time and outlasting them.  The adaptations which made this possible include changes in skull structure among other things.  As part of this research, he has noted that barefoot runners (which early humans obviously were - as opposed to those wearing modern running shoes with cushioned heels) land on the ball of their foot which enables them to run comfortably on hard surfaces and also makes them more efficient runners by maintaining more momentum and transferring less energy into the ground.  I wonder if there is analogous reasoning that applies to the way elephants stand on their tip toes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, thanks so much for responding to my post, Dr. Hutchinson!  Fascinating stuff.  Reminds me a bit of the research being done by Daniel Lieberman at Harvard University.  He has studied how humans evolved the ability to be endurance runners, theorizing that early humans were able to chase down game by running after animals for long periods of time and outlasting them.  The adaptations which made this possible include changes in skull structure among other things.  As part of this research, he has noted that barefoot runners (which early humans obviously were &#8211; as opposed to those wearing modern running shoes with cushioned heels) land on the ball of their foot which enables them to run comfortably on hard surfaces and also makes them more efficient runners by maintaining more momentum and transferring less energy into the ground.  I wonder if there is analogous reasoning that applies to the way elephants stand on their tip toes.</p>
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		<title>By: John R Hutchinson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/12/22/6054/comment-page-1/#comment-69253</link>
		<dc:creator>John R Hutchinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2011 00:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=6054#comment-69253</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your insightful and fun comments, Dave. The weight support issue is a matter of degree; the more vertical the foot, the greater the percentage of body weight that is supported passively by the bones. And since elephant front feet have more vertical bones than the hind, this surely differs within an elephant.  But yes, going fully flat-footed can have a lot of supportive benefits too. The tradeoffs between such foot postures in various species are very poorly known. 

I totally agree that elephant feet (especially the fat pads; but also the toe joints to some degree) are acting as shock absorbers (dampening impact vibrations that are suspected to be harmful to tissues); this and other benefits/costs of foot postures are discussed a little in the paper. 

Right now a lot of our efforts are going into figuring out how elephant feet work, using a variety of methods as well as studies with other animals including horses-- more details here: http://www.rvc.ac.uk/Research/News/BBSRCResearchGrant.cfm . Horses have a tiny little fat pad that has little shock absorbing capacity if any; they seem to use more digital flexion, much as you suggest, to accomplish that.

As for the extra joint in the prehallux of the hind foot, that is pretty wide open. I suspect it relates to the more horizontal foot posture in those hind feet, but that could be wrong. There are pretty obvious differences in anatomy, mobility and (presumably) mechanics between the false &quot;sixth toes&quot; of the fore and hind feet. We&#039;ll be investigating this in the near future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your insightful and fun comments, Dave. The weight support issue is a matter of degree; the more vertical the foot, the greater the percentage of body weight that is supported passively by the bones. And since elephant front feet have more vertical bones than the hind, this surely differs within an elephant.  But yes, going fully flat-footed can have a lot of supportive benefits too. The tradeoffs between such foot postures in various species are very poorly known. </p>
<p>I totally agree that elephant feet (especially the fat pads; but also the toe joints to some degree) are acting as shock absorbers (dampening impact vibrations that are suspected to be harmful to tissues); this and other benefits/costs of foot postures are discussed a little in the paper. </p>
<p>Right now a lot of our efforts are going into figuring out how elephant feet work, using a variety of methods as well as studies with other animals including horses&#8211; more details here: <a href="http://www.rvc.ac.uk/Research/News/BBSRCResearchGrant.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://www.rvc.ac.uk/Research/News/BBSRCResearchGrant.cfm</a> . Horses have a tiny little fat pad that has little shock absorbing capacity if any; they seem to use more digital flexion, much as you suggest, to accomplish that.</p>
<p>As for the extra joint in the prehallux of the hind foot, that is pretty wide open. I suspect it relates to the more horizontal foot posture in those hind feet, but that could be wrong. There are pretty obvious differences in anatomy, mobility and (presumably) mechanics between the false &#8220;sixth toes&#8221; of the fore and hind feet. We&#8217;ll be investigating this in the near future.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/12/22/6054/comment-page-1/#comment-69227</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave O'Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2011 17:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=6054#comment-69227</guid>
		<description>Fascinating article - thanks for posting it!
One question I had concerns the explanation for why elephants stand on their tip-toes.  The idea that the foot bones can support more weight by becoming vertical doesn&#039;t completely make sense to me.  It&#039;s not as if the foot bones are fully vertical - rather they are only partially angled upwards.  Thus, it&#039;s not as if the bones are supporting weight by standing vertically and relying on the bones&#039; compression strength (like a femur or tibia bone) to support weight.  Rather, it would seem to require soft tissue structure (fat, muscle, tendons, etc.) to support the bone at this angle - in fact more so, than if the feet were flat.  I think a better explanation would be that an angled foot acts like a shock absorber, to absorb the impact of all that weight hitting the ground each time the elephant steps.  It may also help to propel locomotion by giving the animal springy bounce to its step.  
In addition, the elephants angled foot reminds me of a horse&#039;s hoof, which I believe is actually the horses middle finger, anatomically speaking.   Like the elephant&#039;s foot, the horse&#039;s middle finger bone is angled to the ground and I think this enables it to have a springier, cushioned step and achieve higher speeds when it runs (gallops) by providing a lever to spring off of as it propels itself forward.  I also believe the horse&#039;s hoof contains something akin to the elephant&#039;s fat pad to support and cushion the back side of the hoof.
Separately, I wonder if the extra joint in the elephant&#039;s rear foot is necessary to allow the elephant to rear up on two feet?  Or to support more weight than the front two feet so it can use the front feet for uses other than locomotion (e.g. stomping on predators).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating article &#8211; thanks for posting it!<br />
One question I had concerns the explanation for why elephants stand on their tip-toes.  The idea that the foot bones can support more weight by becoming vertical doesn&#8217;t completely make sense to me.  It&#8217;s not as if the foot bones are fully vertical &#8211; rather they are only partially angled upwards.  Thus, it&#8217;s not as if the bones are supporting weight by standing vertically and relying on the bones&#8217; compression strength (like a femur or tibia bone) to support weight.  Rather, it would seem to require soft tissue structure (fat, muscle, tendons, etc.) to support the bone at this angle &#8211; in fact more so, than if the feet were flat.  I think a better explanation would be that an angled foot acts like a shock absorber, to absorb the impact of all that weight hitting the ground each time the elephant steps.  It may also help to propel locomotion by giving the animal springy bounce to its step.<br />
In addition, the elephants angled foot reminds me of a horse&#8217;s hoof, which I believe is actually the horses middle finger, anatomically speaking.   Like the elephant&#8217;s foot, the horse&#8217;s middle finger bone is angled to the ground and I think this enables it to have a springier, cushioned step and achieve higher speeds when it runs (gallops) by providing a lever to spring off of as it propels itself forward.  I also believe the horse&#8217;s hoof contains something akin to the elephant&#8217;s fat pad to support and cushion the back side of the hoof.<br />
Separately, I wonder if the extra joint in the elephant&#8217;s rear foot is necessary to allow the elephant to rear up on two feet?  Or to support more weight than the front two feet so it can use the front feet for uses other than locomotion (e.g. stomping on predators).</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Yong</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/12/22/6054/comment-page-1/#comment-69044</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Yong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2011 01:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=6054#comment-69044</guid>
		<description>Thanks Erin. Much appreciated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Erin. Much appreciated.</p>
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		<title>By: Erin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/12/22/6054/comment-page-1/#comment-69041</link>
		<dc:creator>Erin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2011 01:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=6054#comment-69041</guid>
		<description>Excellent article! I just read an article about the same thing on another blog and from it I didn&#039;t understand the structure of an elephant foot at all - the analogy with shoes really explained it to me. And I really thought the reason for amassing the collection of feet was interesting, which didn&#039;t appear in the other blog either.

This is not the first time I have read about the same subject on another blog and found yours more interesting. Good work!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent article! I just read an article about the same thing on another blog and from it I didn&#8217;t understand the structure of an elephant foot at all &#8211; the analogy with shoes really explained it to me. And I really thought the reason for amassing the collection of feet was interesting, which didn&#8217;t appear in the other blog either.</p>
<p>This is not the first time I have read about the same subject on another blog and found yours more interesting. Good work!</p>
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		<title>By: John R Hutchinson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/12/22/6054/comment-page-1/#comment-68987</link>
		<dc:creator>John R Hutchinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2011 12:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=6054#comment-68987</guid>
		<description>Ahh and the left image is a forefoot; right image a hindfoot. Viewed from the inside (big-toe-side) of the foot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh and the left image is a forefoot; right image a hindfoot. Viewed from the inside (big-toe-side) of the foot.</p>
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		<title>By: John R Hutchinson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/12/22/6054/comment-page-1/#comment-68902</link>
		<dc:creator>John R Hutchinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Dec 2011 18:08:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=6054#comment-68902</guid>
		<description>Two other animals with wrist/ankle bones like those of pandas and elephants are moles, and some frogs. Marcelo Sanchez-Villagra&#039;s group has done some fabulous work on this subject, especially in moles-- http://www.msanchezlab.net

Here are some labels for the diagram above-
ac= accessory carpal/pisiform (upper wrist bone, sometimes thought to have been a sesamoid, supported weight in early elephants); ca = calcaneum (sort of equivalent to pisiform, in hind foot); D3= third digit (middle toe); ds= digital sesamoid (normal, paired sesamoids embedded in the finger flexor tendons); ph and pp = prehallux and prepollex; mt1 and mc1= metatarsal and metacarpal 1 (primary attachment bone for the ph and pp).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two other animals with wrist/ankle bones like those of pandas and elephants are moles, and some frogs. Marcelo Sanchez-Villagra&#8217;s group has done some fabulous work on this subject, especially in moles&#8211; <a href="http://www.msanchezlab.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.msanchezlab.net</a></p>
<p>Here are some labels for the diagram above-<br />
ac= accessory carpal/pisiform (upper wrist bone, sometimes thought to have been a sesamoid, supported weight in early elephants); ca = calcaneum (sort of equivalent to pisiform, in hind foot); D3= third digit (middle toe); ds= digital sesamoid (normal, paired sesamoids embedded in the finger flexor tendons); ph and pp = prehallux and prepollex; mt1 and mc1= metatarsal and metacarpal 1 (primary attachment bone for the ph and pp).</p>
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