<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Random gene sets can predict breast cancer survival better than supposedly cancer-related ones</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/02/03/random-gene-sets-can-predict-breast-cancer-survival-better-than-supposedly-cancer-related-ones/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/02/03/random-gene-sets-can-predict-breast-cancer-survival-better-than-supposedly-cancer-related-ones/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 12:00:51 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/02/03/random-gene-sets-can-predict-breast-cancer-survival-better-than-supposedly-cancer-related-ones/#comment-14278</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2012 17:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=6321#comment-14278</guid>
		<description>Firstly, this paper has an overly sensational title for the paper - the biggest result is actually the authors creating a new signature called metaPCNA. Their main result isn&#039;t even the association of random gene signatures to prognosis.

Secondly, if you&#039;re familiar with the field of GWA studies, you&#039;ll realize their p-values are ridiculously and suspiciously low (~10^-6 - when in biology do you ever see that?). The reason for this is that GWA studies are built around predictability. A typical p-value for prediction, not training, lies in the 10^-3 to 0.05 range. Ignoring this fact, the authors of the study base their idea that random gene signatures are associated with prognosis on the fact that they can train data sets to cluster without testing them. Those familiar with machine learning know that you can train anything out of any data set you want - the real challenge is finding significance in a separate data set. The over-sensationalized nature of the paper is simply demonstrating this fact. They don&#039;t use any sort of validation or testing sets. The p-values they present are training p-values, not testing p-values. All of their nice, pretty p-values will probably disappear if you applied their trained signatures on a second data set. This was really the main flaw of the paper.

All in all, their main contribution is in the idea that one should use a more rigorous hypothesis testing on gene signatures in that one should show that one&#039;s signature should outperform 95% of random signatures - but in separate testing sets, not in the training set.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firstly, this paper has an overly sensational title for the paper &#8211; the biggest result is actually the authors creating a new signature called metaPCNA. Their main result isn&#8217;t even the association of random gene signatures to prognosis.</p>
<p>Secondly, if you&#8217;re familiar with the field of GWA studies, you&#8217;ll realize their p-values are ridiculously and suspiciously low (~10^-6 &#8211; when in biology do you ever see that?). The reason for this is that GWA studies are built around predictability. A typical p-value for prediction, not training, lies in the 10^-3 to 0.05 range. Ignoring this fact, the authors of the study base their idea that random gene signatures are associated with prognosis on the fact that they can train data sets to cluster without testing them. Those familiar with machine learning know that you can train anything out of any data set you want &#8211; the real challenge is finding significance in a separate data set. The over-sensationalized nature of the paper is simply demonstrating this fact. They don&#8217;t use any sort of validation or testing sets. The p-values they present are training p-values, not testing p-values. All of their nice, pretty p-values will probably disappear if you applied their trained signatures on a second data set. This was really the main flaw of the paper.</p>
<p>All in all, their main contribution is in the idea that one should use a more rigorous hypothesis testing on gene signatures in that one should show that one&#8217;s signature should outperform 95% of random signatures &#8211; but in separate testing sets, not in the training set.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/02/03/random-gene-sets-can-predict-breast-cancer-survival-better-than-supposedly-cancer-related-ones/#comment-14277</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 03:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=6321#comment-14277</guid>
		<description>To a large extent this had been noted previously, and was attributed to specific properties of the NKI dataset. Thus it is not generally true, but of course is important to bear in mind.

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2407/9/214</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To a large extent this had been noted previously, and was attributed to specific properties of the NKI dataset. Thus it is not generally true, but of course is important to bear in mind.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2407/9/214" rel="nofollow">http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2407/9/214</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Heather</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/02/03/random-gene-sets-can-predict-breast-cancer-survival-better-than-supposedly-cancer-related-ones/#comment-14276</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 18:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=6321#comment-14276</guid>
		<description>As to the cancer gene signature paper, xkcd has a comic for every situation... http://xkcd.com/882/

And the point about dogmas of academic publishing highlights the importance of the open science movement. Looking forward to reading more of your posts on F1000!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As to the cancer gene signature paper, xkcd has a comic for every situation&#8230; <a href="http://xkcd.com/882/" rel="nofollow">http://xkcd.com/882/</a></p>
<p>And the point about dogmas of academic publishing highlights the importance of the open science movement. Looking forward to reading more of your posts on F1000!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Heather</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/02/03/random-gene-sets-can-predict-breast-cancer-survival-better-than-supposedly-cancer-related-ones/#comment-14275</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=6321#comment-14275</guid>
		<description>Link for How sleeping alone affects newborn babies: http://blog.f1000.com/2012/01/23/never-let-me-go/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Link for How sleeping alone affects newborn babies: <a href="http://blog.f1000.com/2012/01/23/never-let-me-go/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.f1000.com/2012/01/23/never-let-me-go/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
