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	<title>Comments on: Will we ever&#8230; photosynthesise like plants?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/09/18/will-we-ever-photosynthesise-like-plants/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 12:00:51 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Kumar S</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/09/18/will-we-ever-photosynthesise-like-plants/#comment-15989</link>
		<dc:creator>Kumar S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:08:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7661#comment-15989</guid>
		<description>So how do we power a human? :)

Humans are about 100W animals, and sunlight is an average of a 250W source. The efficiencies of plants at photosynthesis is somewhere about 1 to 5 %, let&#039;s take 1 %. So we&#039;d need about 40 square meters of a leaf-organ. Lol.

But, let&#039;s imagine a magical future where these proteins and chemical pathways and eneryg losses are mere distractions to our intent and this 1% efficiency means nothing, and we can push it to its theoretical best of something like 11-12%. That&#039;s not too bad... 3-4 square meters.

And you never need to eat.

I wonder if we can design a trailer-car which is basically your food/organics kit. :D

@Noumenon : If you move, you&#039;ve kind of spent all the energy you stayed still to harness and was barely enough to supply life-maintenance functions...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So how do we power a human? <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Humans are about 100W animals, and sunlight is an average of a 250W source. The efficiencies of plants at photosynthesis is somewhere about 1 to 5 %, let&#8217;s take 1 %. So we&#8217;d need about 40 square meters of a leaf-organ. Lol.</p>
<p>But, let&#8217;s imagine a magical future where these proteins and chemical pathways and eneryg losses are mere distractions to our intent and this 1% efficiency means nothing, and we can push it to its theoretical best of something like 11-12%. That&#8217;s not too bad&#8230; 3-4 square meters.</p>
<p>And you never need to eat.</p>
<p>I wonder if we can design a trailer-car which is basically your food/organics kit. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@Noumenon : If you move, you&#8217;ve kind of spent all the energy you stayed still to harness and was barely enough to supply life-maintenance functions&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Myers</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/09/18/will-we-ever-photosynthesise-like-plants/#comment-15988</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7661#comment-15988</guid>
		<description>It takes way more power to move around quickly than you can get from converting sunlight. Likewise, a car covered with solar panels and parked all day only picks up a few minutes&#039; extra range.

Animals are not all obliged to move energetically.  A sloth could get enough power from the sun for daily life, if it could bear the exposure.  Sea stars (starfish, echinoderms) living in shallow water could afford to live entirely on sunlight.  It&#039;s possible, even likely, that echinoderm lineages have taken up photosynthesis many times, gone sessile, and then died out before we had a chance to see them.  It would be hard but not necessarily impossible to tell from fossils that it had happened.

On a planet where nothing survives without migrating, there might be no real distinction between plants and animals.  The plants would move, and the animals would bask, and each might eat the other.

Where nothing happens very fast, there&#039;s no need for a brain to be centralized, or for it to do nothing but think. A slow brain might better be distributed over your entire skin surface, along with photosynthetic jiggery, and be powered directly by it; or double as a circulatory system or dyspeptic liver.  If it doesn&#039;t have to be very fast, you  don&#039;t need to have so much of it, or have it so densely interconnected as ours are.  A slow brain, no matter how clever, might not seem to be a brain at all if you aren&#039;t looking for it.

Anybody looking for non-human intelligent life had better not assume it lives just as fast as we do.  It might be right here and we just don&#039;t notice it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It takes way more power to move around quickly than you can get from converting sunlight. Likewise, a car covered with solar panels and parked all day only picks up a few minutes&#8217; extra range.</p>
<p>Animals are not all obliged to move energetically.  A sloth could get enough power from the sun for daily life, if it could bear the exposure.  Sea stars (starfish, echinoderms) living in shallow water could afford to live entirely on sunlight.  It&#8217;s possible, even likely, that echinoderm lineages have taken up photosynthesis many times, gone sessile, and then died out before we had a chance to see them.  It would be hard but not necessarily impossible to tell from fossils that it had happened.</p>
<p>On a planet where nothing survives without migrating, there might be no real distinction between plants and animals.  The plants would move, and the animals would bask, and each might eat the other.</p>
<p>Where nothing happens very fast, there&#8217;s no need for a brain to be centralized, or for it to do nothing but think. A slow brain might better be distributed over your entire skin surface, along with photosynthetic jiggery, and be powered directly by it; or double as a circulatory system or dyspeptic liver.  If it doesn&#8217;t have to be very fast, you  don&#8217;t need to have so much of it, or have it so densely interconnected as ours are.  A slow brain, no matter how clever, might not seem to be a brain at all if you aren&#8217;t looking for it.</p>
<p>Anybody looking for non-human intelligent life had better not assume it lives just as fast as we do.  It might be right here and we just don&#8217;t notice it.</p>
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		<title>By: Noumenon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/09/18/will-we-ever-photosynthesise-like-plants/#comment-15987</link>
		<dc:creator>Noumenon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 02:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7661#comment-15987</guid>
		<description>Why do you have to remain still to photosynthesize? Do people not tan when they move around?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do you have to remain still to photosynthesize? Do people not tan when they move around?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/09/18/will-we-ever-photosynthesise-like-plants/#comment-15986</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 02:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7661#comment-15986</guid>
		<description>In a way humans do harness the sun&#039;s energy when we make Vitamin D.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a way humans do harness the sun&#8217;s energy when we make Vitamin D.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Too</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/09/18/will-we-ever-photosynthesise-like-plants/#comment-15985</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Too</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 23:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7661#comment-15985</guid>
		<description>Hulk sad.  Hulk walk away.  No talk now!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hulk sad.  Hulk walk away.  No talk now!</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Moran</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/09/18/will-we-ever-photosynthesise-like-plants/#comment-15984</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Moran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 14:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7661#comment-15984</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;And neither example is true photosynthesis, which also involves transforming carbon dioxide into sugars and other such compounds. Using solar energy is just part of the full conversion process.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m trying to promote the idea that true photosynthesis ends with the production of ATP and NADPH [&lt;a href=&quot;http://sandwalk.blogspot.ca/2012/07/carbon-dioxide-fixation-in-dark-ocean.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Carbon Dioxide Fixation in the Dark Ocean&lt;/a&gt;] [&lt;a href=&quot;http://sandwalk.blogspot.ca/2007/11/photosyntesis-song-and-pet-peeve.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Photosynthesis Song and a Pet Peeve&lt;/a&gt;]

In photosynthetic bacteria and algae the ATP and NADPH molecules are used for all kinds of things including synthesis of proteins, lipids, and nucleic acids. This is also true in plants although in flowering plants the energy is often stored temporarily as sucrose or starch.

Furthermore, the fixation of carbon using the Calvin cycle is not restricted to photosynthetic species. The two processes, photosynthesis and carbon fixation, are truly uncoupled. Our bias stems (no pun intended) from the fact that the original studies of photosynthesis were done in flowering plants where there&#039;s a direct correlation between oxygen release (photosynthesis) and carbon dioxide uptake (Calvin Cycle) because so much of the chemical energy produced by photosynthesis is devoted to synthesis of sucrose and starch.

You don&#039;t see such a direct correlation in algae and bacteria but photosynthesis in those organisms was only looked at much later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>And neither example is true photosynthesis, which also involves transforming carbon dioxide into sugars and other such compounds. Using solar energy is just part of the full conversion process.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m trying to promote the idea that true photosynthesis ends with the production of ATP and NADPH [<a href="http://sandwalk.blogspot.ca/2012/07/carbon-dioxide-fixation-in-dark-ocean.html" rel="nofollow">Carbon Dioxide Fixation in the Dark Ocean</a>] [<a href="http://sandwalk.blogspot.ca/2007/11/photosyntesis-song-and-pet-peeve.html" rel="nofollow">The Photosynthesis Song and a Pet Peeve</a>]</p>
<p>In photosynthetic bacteria and algae the ATP and NADPH molecules are used for all kinds of things including synthesis of proteins, lipids, and nucleic acids. This is also true in plants although in flowering plants the energy is often stored temporarily as sucrose or starch.</p>
<p>Furthermore, the fixation of carbon using the Calvin cycle is not restricted to photosynthetic species. The two processes, photosynthesis and carbon fixation, are truly uncoupled. Our bias stems (no pun intended) from the fact that the original studies of photosynthesis were done in flowering plants where there&#8217;s a direct correlation between oxygen release (photosynthesis) and carbon dioxide uptake (Calvin Cycle) because so much of the chemical energy produced by photosynthesis is devoted to synthesis of sucrose and starch.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t see such a direct correlation in algae and bacteria but photosynthesis in those organisms was only looked at much later.</p>
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