Comments on: Beauty in the right eye of the beholder – finch chooses better mates with its right eye http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/02/beauty-in-the-right-eye-of-the-beholder-finch-chooses-better-mates-with-its-right-eye/ Mon, 26 Nov 2012 12:00:51 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Lou Jost http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/02/beauty-in-the-right-eye-of-the-beholder-finch-chooses-better-mates-with-its-right-eye/#comment-16053 Lou Jost Mon, 08 Oct 2012 02:58:59 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7721#comment-16053 Yes, thanks Jennifer! Nice work. Yes, thanks Jennifer! Nice work.

]]> By: Ed Yong http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/02/beauty-in-the-right-eye-of-the-beholder-finch-chooses-better-mates-with-its-right-eye/#comment-16052 Ed Yong Sat, 06 Oct 2012 19:11:43 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7721#comment-16052 Quick note - many thanks to Jennifer for engaging with questions in the comments. Always appreciated. Quick note – many thanks to Jennifer for engaging with questions in the comments. Always appreciated.

]]> By: Jennifer Templeton http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/02/beauty-in-the-right-eye-of-the-beholder-finch-chooses-better-mates-with-its-right-eye/#comment-16051 Jennifer Templeton Sat, 06 Oct 2012 14:03:39 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7721#comment-16051 Yes - the former. Yes – the former.

]]> By: Lou Jost http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/02/beauty-in-the-right-eye-of-the-beholder-finch-chooses-better-mates-with-its-right-eye/#comment-16050 Lou Jost Sat, 06 Oct 2012 12:27:13 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7721#comment-16050 Jennifer, thanks for that response. So you transformed the times and then took the means. Did you then do the inverse transform on those means to get back to actual viewing times, and does your 2x figure refer to that? That is the real magnitude of the effect, the thing that seems most important to know. Or does your 2x figure refer to the ratio of the arcsin-transformed viewing times? That would be much less interesting; any nonlinear transformation makes the magnitudes of the differences essentially uninterpretable, though more amenable to statistical analyses. Jennifer, thanks for that response. So you transformed the times and then took the means. Did you then do the inverse transform on those means to get back to actual viewing times, and does your 2x figure refer to that? That is the real magnitude of the effect, the thing that seems most important to know. Or does your 2x figure refer to the ratio of the arcsin-transformed viewing times? That would be much less interesting; any nonlinear transformation makes the magnitudes of the differences essentially uninterpretable, though more amenable to statistical analyses.

]]> By: Jennifer Templeton http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/02/beauty-in-the-right-eye-of-the-beholder-finch-chooses-better-mates-with-its-right-eye/#comment-16049 Jennifer Templeton Sat, 06 Oct 2012 03:11:08 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7721#comment-16049 And just to clarify for Pete, Rogers et al. showed that young chickens incubated in the light do use the right eye for foraging and the left eye for looking out for predators. So, at least in that paper, not bollocks... And just to clarify for Pete, Rogers et al. showed that young chickens incubated in the light do use the right eye for foraging and the left eye for looking out for predators. So, at least in that paper, not bollocks…

]]> By: Jennifer Templeton http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/02/beauty-in-the-right-eye-of-the-beholder-finch-chooses-better-mates-with-its-right-eye/#comment-16048 Jennifer Templeton Sat, 06 Oct 2012 02:50:43 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7721#comment-16048 In response to Lou Jost: Based on the least-squares means of arcsine-transformed proportions of viewing times (i.e. the data that were used in the GLMM analyses), black-headed males stared at the black-headed females ~2x longer when the right eye was available (right eye: 19.79; both eyes: 21.03) compared to when it was not (left eye: 10.78). In response to Lou Jost: Based on the least-squares means of arcsine-transformed proportions of viewing times (i.e. the data that were used in the GLMM analyses), black-headed males stared at the black-headed females ~2x longer when the right eye was available (right eye: 19.79; both eyes: 21.03) compared to when it was not (left eye: 10.78).

]]> By: Gordon http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/02/beauty-in-the-right-eye-of-the-beholder-finch-chooses-better-mates-with-its-right-eye/#comment-16047 Gordon Fri, 05 Oct 2012 18:10:46 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7721#comment-16047 Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, unfortunately the rest of the party is in the stomach of the beholder. :p Sorry, I couldn't resist. (Dungeons and Dragons joke for those of you whom don't play the game.) Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, unfortunately the rest of the party is in the stomach of the beholder. :p

Sorry, I couldn’t resist. (Dungeons and Dragons joke for those of you whom don’t play the game.)

]]> By: Lou Jost http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/02/beauty-in-the-right-eye-of-the-beholder-finch-chooses-better-mates-with-its-right-eye/#comment-16046 Lou Jost Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:45:37 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7721#comment-16046 It would be nice to know the magnitude of the effect. This is one of the most important things a reader needs to know about any experimental result. In this case, you only say that the birds stared at black-headed females longer when they had the use of the right eye than when they did not. Was it 2x longer? 3x longer? 0.001% longer? It makes a great deal of difference to the interpretation. Thanks in advance. (Note that this is an entirely different question than the statistical significance of the result; it is fair to assume that since the article was published, the results were statistically significant.) It would be nice to know the magnitude of the effect. This is one of the most important things a reader needs to know about any experimental result. In this case, you only say that the birds stared at black-headed females longer when they had the use of the right eye than when they did not. Was it 2x longer? 3x longer? 0.001% longer? It makes a great deal of difference to the interpretation. Thanks in advance. (Note that this is an entirely different question than the statistical significance of the result; it is fair to assume that since the article was published, the results were statistically significant.)

]]> By: davem http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/02/beauty-in-the-right-eye-of-the-beholder-finch-chooses-better-mates-with-its-right-eye/#comment-16045 davem Thu, 04 Oct 2012 08:52:06 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7721#comment-16045 Birds detect magnetic fields in their right eyes - is there some connection? Birds detect magnetic fields in their right eyes – is there some connection?

]]> By: Pete in NZ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/02/beauty-in-the-right-eye-of-the-beholder-finch-chooses-better-mates-with-its-right-eye/#comment-16044 Pete in NZ Thu, 04 Oct 2012 07:38:09 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7721#comment-16044 Thanks for that @Cargo and @Jennifer - I'll try to keep in mind the maxim that any neat and tidy explanation is to be immediately suspected.. Thanks for that @Cargo and @Jennifer – I’ll try to keep in mind the maxim that any neat and tidy explanation is to be immediately suspected..

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