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	<title>Comments on: I&#039;ve got your missing links right here (27 October 2012)</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/27/ive-got-your-missing-links-right-here-27-october-2012/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 12:00:51 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Nathan Myers</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/27/ive-got-your-missing-links-right-here-27-october-2012/#comment-16283</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 07:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7881#comment-16283</guid>
		<description>When a co-worker made fun of me for how much water he sees me drinking, my response was, “You talk *just like* someone who’s never had a kidney stone.” I strongly recommend, for all of you who, like him, have never had a kidney stone, against the experience.

Really, once is more than enough.

 * * *

I gather that rodents (and rats, which are no longer rodents!) are routinely exposed to saturation levels of phthalates in their drinking water and their cage materials, unless the phthalate effect itself is under examination.  Can any negative result in a typical endocrine disruption experiment be trusted?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When a co-worker made fun of me for how much water he sees me drinking, my response was, “You talk *just like* someone who’s never had a kidney stone.” I strongly recommend, for all of you who, like him, have never had a kidney stone, against the experience.</p>
<p>Really, once is more than enough.</p>
<p> * * *</p>
<p>I gather that rodents (and rats, which are no longer rodents!) are routinely exposed to saturation levels of phthalates in their drinking water and their cage materials, unless the phthalate effect itself is under examination.  Can any negative result in a typical endocrine disruption experiment be trusted?</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Mach</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/27/ive-got-your-missing-links-right-here-27-october-2012/#comment-16282</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Mach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2012 10:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7881#comment-16282</guid>
		<description>&quot;&lt;/i&gt;Ski slopes vs. craggy mountains – good balanced piece by Dan Fagin on the controversial behaviour of hormone disruptors.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Uhm.

One of the three poster-boy examples for the non-monotonous curves from the article is not as clear cut as it might appear:

http://www.nature.com/polopoly_fs/7.7015.1350997975!/image/Curves-graphic.jpg_gen/derivatives/fullsize/Curves-graphic.jpg

The BPA/cancer in mice study has cancer induced by other means, so there is a non-trivial interaction between BPA and the already present cancer.

BTW:
The stuff that mice are fed in studies is not necessarily an accurate representation of the diet from their evolutionary environment. So I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if there are non-trivial interactions between the &quot;non-monotonous&quot; substance on test, and possible evolutionary novel substances contained in mouse chow (you know, stuff like trans-fatty acids, high seed oil content, and so on – stuff mice had definitly no access to in their evolutionary environment).

BTW2:
If you like non-obvious results with regards to BPA, you will love this:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/87/11/5185.pdf
http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/2009/12/bpa-in-thermal-printer-ink.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Ski slopes vs. craggy mountains – good balanced piece by Dan Fagin on the controversial behaviour of hormone disruptors.&#8221;</p>
<p>Uhm.</p>
<p>One of the three poster-boy examples for the non-monotonous curves from the article is not as clear cut as it might appear:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nature.com/polopoly_fs/7.7015.1350997975!/image/Curves-graphic.jpg_gen/derivatives/fullsize/Curves-graphic.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.nature.com/polopoly_fs/7.7015.1350997975!/image/Curves-graphic.jpg_gen/derivatives/fullsize/Curves-graphic.jpg</a></p>
<p>The BPA/cancer in mice study has cancer induced by other means, so there is a non-trivial interaction between BPA and the already present cancer.</p>
<p>BTW:<br />
The stuff that mice are fed in studies is not necessarily an accurate representation of the diet from their evolutionary environment. So I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if there are non-trivial interactions between the &#8220;non-monotonous&#8221; substance on test, and possible evolutionary novel substances contained in mouse chow (you know, stuff like trans-fatty acids, high seed oil content, and so on – stuff mice had definitly no access to in their evolutionary environment).</p>
<p>BTW2:<br />
If you like non-obvious results with regards to BPA, you will love this:</p>
<p><a href="http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/87/11/5185.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/87/11/5185.pdf</a><br />
<a href="http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/2009/12/bpa-in-thermal-printer-ink.html" rel="nofollow">http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/2009/12/bpa-in-thermal-printer-ink.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Phil E.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/27/ive-got-your-missing-links-right-here-27-october-2012/#comment-16281</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2012 18:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7881#comment-16281</guid>
		<description>The article relating to &quot;Climate scientist Michael E Mann sues for defamation&quot; was a publicity stunt by Mann to rescue his reputation. The suit is rapidly becoming a nightmare for him as his own lawsuit and words are effectively destroying his credibility and proving the defendants point.  His case has been severely compromised by egotistical &quot;embellishments&quot; of his &quot;credentials&quot;
http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.ca/2012/10/what-is-wrong-with-embellishing-science.html?m=1
http://www.steynonline.com/5264/the-fraudulent-nobel-laureate</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article relating to &#8220;Climate scientist Michael E Mann sues for defamation&#8221; was a publicity stunt by Mann to rescue his reputation. The suit is rapidly becoming a nightmare for him as his own lawsuit and words are effectively destroying his credibility and proving the defendants point.  His case has been severely compromised by egotistical &#8220;embellishments&#8221; of his &#8220;credentials&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.ca/2012/10/what-is-wrong-with-embellishing-science.html?m=1" rel="nofollow">http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.ca/2012/10/what-is-wrong-with-embellishing-science.html?m=1</a><br />
<a href="http://www.steynonline.com/5264/the-fraudulent-nobel-laureate" rel="nofollow">http://www.steynonline.com/5264/the-fraudulent-nobel-laureate</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jim Woodgett</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/27/ive-got-your-missing-links-right-here-27-october-2012/#comment-16280</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Woodgett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7881#comment-16280</guid>
		<description>Walter,
Excellent set of questions and facts. You&#039;re a scientist if you employ scientific method to your thinking. A PhD does not qualify anyone if they choose to ignore scientific logic.

As for L&#039;Aquila, where is the outrage directed at the planners, the builders and the inspectors? This is only too common.  The tragedies of various earthquakes in seemingly &#039;targeting&#039;  schools and care homes revealing shoddy building and the true values of society are repeated over and over. Lets blame the scientists because they fall back on those pesky things called evidence and hide behind bizarre concepts such as probability and relative risk. Easy targets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walter,<br />
Excellent set of questions and facts. You&#8217;re a scientist if you employ scientific method to your thinking. A PhD does not qualify anyone if they choose to ignore scientific logic.</p>
<p>As for L&#8217;Aquila, where is the outrage directed at the planners, the builders and the inspectors? This is only too common.  The tragedies of various earthquakes in seemingly &#8216;targeting&#8217;  schools and care homes revealing shoddy building and the true values of society are repeated over and over. Lets blame the scientists because they fall back on those pesky things called evidence and hide behind bizarre concepts such as probability and relative risk. Easy targets.</p>
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		<title>By: Walter S. Andriuzzi</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/27/ive-got-your-missing-links-right-here-27-october-2012/#comment-16279</link>
		<dc:creator>Walter S. Andriuzzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2012 13:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7881#comment-16279</guid>
		<description>As an Italian scientist* living abroad, I feel ashamed and enraged for the earthquake trial. I want to thank you because the articles you linked to pretty much cover the whole story and what we should get from it. I particularly appreciated Maria&#039;s piece in greengabbro because she nails the most important point perfectly: even admitting a poor communication from the charged, the *right* thing for the people would still have been to STAY HOME. Yes, scientists&#039; message of &quot;low risk of a strong quake&quot; was misunderstood by L&#039;Aquila residents as &quot;NO risk of a strong quake&quot;, but even if that was not the case, the &quot;statistically&quot; right response from the citizens would still have been to sleep in their houses (which should have been anti-seismic - not geologists&#039; fault if they weren&#039;t!).

We may compare it with what&#039;s now happening in another part of Italy, the Pollino (Southern Italy). The other day there was a relatively strong earthquake (though just one person died, of heart attack), but in the last 2 years the area has been affected by HUNDREDS of small to medium magnitude seismic events - an earthquake swarm not at all unlike that in L&#039;Aquila before the big one. If we follow the same logic that led to the L&#039;Aquila conviction, people in Pollino should have left their homes 2 years ago and been living in tents or whatever since then!

Incredibly, many Italians still don&#039;t seem to get that most of our country is at high seismic risk, and don&#039;t demand enough from institutions in terms of prevention measures. After all the real problem with L&#039;Aquila was that an earthquake of that intensity should NOT have caused so much damage - apart from the 300+ killed it really destroyed entire towns, which would not have happened if most building were anti-seismic, as they should have been according to Italian law.

And yet Italians don&#039;t get it, they keep confiding on luck or divine providence, and then after some inevitable disaster occurs they must find someone to blame. This not only with earthquakes, but also with hydrogeological risk. Every year several Italian towns are affected by landslides and floods resulting at best in financial damage, and not uncommonly in casualties... and yet people not only keep living in high-risk areas (which is partly understandable, where else could they go, Yorkshire?), but to BUILD anew in high-risk areas. Italians after all aren&#039;t renowned for long-term planning and &quot;historic&quot; memory...
Apologies for the overlong comment
-wsa

* If a 2nd year PhD students can be allowed to describe himself as a scientist. Usually I&#039;d be modest and put inverted commas but today I&#039;m totally going for the S word</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an Italian scientist* living abroad, I feel ashamed and enraged for the earthquake trial. I want to thank you because the articles you linked to pretty much cover the whole story and what we should get from it. I particularly appreciated Maria&#8217;s piece in greengabbro because she nails the most important point perfectly: even admitting a poor communication from the charged, the *right* thing for the people would still have been to STAY HOME. Yes, scientists&#8217; message of &#8220;low risk of a strong quake&#8221; was misunderstood by L&#8217;Aquila residents as &#8220;NO risk of a strong quake&#8221;, but even if that was not the case, the &#8220;statistically&#8221; right response from the citizens would still have been to sleep in their houses (which should have been anti-seismic &#8211; not geologists&#8217; fault if they weren&#8217;t!).</p>
<p>We may compare it with what&#8217;s now happening in another part of Italy, the Pollino (Southern Italy). The other day there was a relatively strong earthquake (though just one person died, of heart attack), but in the last 2 years the area has been affected by HUNDREDS of small to medium magnitude seismic events &#8211; an earthquake swarm not at all unlike that in L&#8217;Aquila before the big one. If we follow the same logic that led to the L&#8217;Aquila conviction, people in Pollino should have left their homes 2 years ago and been living in tents or whatever since then!</p>
<p>Incredibly, many Italians still don&#8217;t seem to get that most of our country is at high seismic risk, and don&#8217;t demand enough from institutions in terms of prevention measures. After all the real problem with L&#8217;Aquila was that an earthquake of that intensity should NOT have caused so much damage &#8211; apart from the 300+ killed it really destroyed entire towns, which would not have happened if most building were anti-seismic, as they should have been according to Italian law.</p>
<p>And yet Italians don&#8217;t get it, they keep confiding on luck or divine providence, and then after some inevitable disaster occurs they must find someone to blame. This not only with earthquakes, but also with hydrogeological risk. Every year several Italian towns are affected by landslides and floods resulting at best in financial damage, and not uncommonly in casualties&#8230; and yet people not only keep living in high-risk areas (which is partly understandable, where else could they go, Yorkshire?), but to BUILD anew in high-risk areas. Italians after all aren&#8217;t renowned for long-term planning and &#8220;historic&#8221; memory&#8230;<br />
Apologies for the overlong comment<br />
-wsa</p>
<p>* If a 2nd year PhD students can be allowed to describe himself as a scientist. Usually I&#8217;d be modest and put inverted commas but today I&#8217;m totally going for the S word</p>
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		<title>By: Sequoia</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/27/ive-got-your-missing-links-right-here-27-october-2012/#comment-16278</link>
		<dc:creator>Sequoia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2012 06:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7881#comment-16278</guid>
		<description>The &quot;genetics of stupidity&quot; link isn&#039;t working.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;genetics of stupidity&#8221; link isn&#8217;t working.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Dawkins</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/27/ive-got-your-missing-links-right-here-27-october-2012/#comment-16277</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Dawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2012 20:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7881#comment-16277</guid>
		<description>The earthquake scientists were sentenced to six YEARS in prison. You said six months.
&lt;strong&gt;
[D&#039;oh! Fixed. Thanks - Ed]&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The earthquake scientists were sentenced to six YEARS in prison. You said six months.<br />
<strong><br />
[D'oh! Fixed. Thanks - Ed]</strong></p>
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		<title>By: Khalil A.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/10/27/ive-got-your-missing-links-right-here-27-october-2012/#comment-16276</link>
		<dc:creator>Khalil A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2012 20:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/?p=7881#comment-16276</guid>
		<description>Hey Ed—Aatish Bhatia isn&#039;t on SciLogs.com. Perhaps you meant Akshat Rathi instead?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Ed—Aatish Bhatia isn&#8217;t on SciLogs.com. Perhaps you meant Akshat Rathi instead?</p>
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