Gun control advocates are reeling after the Supreme Court struck down a 32-year-old D.C. handgun ban, essentially handing a victory banner to the NRA. But now there’s cause to take heart: Disney’s got your back, thanks to a technological loophole.
While Florida recently enacted a law allowing residents with proper permits to keep guns locked in their cars at work, the state’s biggest corporate juggernaut has announced plans to exempt its 60,000 employees from the law. According to the Orlando Sentinel, the company has turned up its nose at lawmakers, circulating an internal memo advising employees that bringing unauthorized guns onto Disney property was grounds for termination.
The Big Mouse’s reasoning is this: The law contains a last-minute exemption for businesses that have obtained federal permits to use explosives. Of course, the bill’s authors intended the exemption to apply to defense plants and weapons manufacturers, but the House of Walt has also obtained such a permit—for fireworks in the Magic Kingdom.
Disney’s defiance has left state legislators—not to mention the NRA—furious, but the company isn’t alone; other big businesses in the state, including the the Florida Chamber of Commerce and the Florida Retail Federation, all oppose the law. Not to mention Universal Studios in Orlando, which claimed its own exemption on different grounds: Many of its workers are students in a work-study program, and the Orange County Public School System is excluded from the law. SeaWorld, meanwhile, is standing firm and siding with the legislature. Just in case its employees need to pack some heat during all those whale rescue missions.
Image: Flickr/JStephens
July 8th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
I supose it is time to add Disney to the boycott list.
Why are companies so afraid of honest citizens having
weapons? Their elitist opinion has been duly noted.
I wonder if they employ armed guards to protect themselves,
while denying that right of protection to their expendable
clients.
July 8th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Realize that this essentially requires that from the time an employee leaves their home, till they return at the end of the day, they are disarmed. They just can’t tollerate the idea of people having the means to defend themselves from crime and predation. I’m sure Disney’s Senior Leadership have security guards to protect them, it’s elitisim to demand their employees not be able to protect themselves.
Now, if Disney had lockers on entry to the facility where weapons had to be checked/stored, that might be understandable, as they have their own security on facility. There’s nothing reasonable about demanding that their employees be unarmed off-property however, and banning the vehicle as storage infringes the right of their employees to keep and bear their arms for legal purposes.
July 8th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Let the gun lobby boycott Disney. The general public needs to learn about these ridiculous laws preventing employers from establishing certain public safety rules on their property. Is it elitist to be more concerned about the safety of all of your employees, as opposed to worrying about the “rights” of some employees who feel the need to bring their guns to work?
July 9th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Andy,
Why do you put “rights” in quotes? Do you not feel that self defense is a legitimate right?
And the “gun lobby” that you refer to is not the boogeyman you make it out to be. It is the “general public” that will boycott Disney, not some fat guy in a suit in some smokey back office.
You do make a good point about the balance between private property ownership rights and the rights of individuals to protect themselves. However, precident shows that the private propery rights of a corporation do not trump individual rights enumerated in law. For example, a business that employs more than a certain number of people is required to have wheelchair access. Also, private property rights do not allow an employer to only hire Irish males. Once you make profit by utilizing the services of other people, and the infrastructure of the community (ie. run a business) you are bound to follow the rules set forth by law, even on your own property. One of those laws allows for employees to provide for their own safety when traveling to and from work. Why should private property rights trump this fundamental, Constitutionally protected right?
-Dan
July 9th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Andy,
What threat do lawful and responsible persons pose to “safety of employees”? None. What criminal will heed such a regulation? None. By default, the policy does nothing to prevent criminally minded persons from carrying a firearm, but only restricts persons who are no threat.
If the policy didn’t result in a defacto abridgement on the right of employees to keep and bear arms off-property and off-hours during transit to and from their homes, perhaps there wouldn’t be an issue. As I mentioned, if Disney allowed the firearms to be checked in on entering the property, and retrieved on the way out, there would be less of a concern.
We need to stop infringing on the civil rights of lawful and responsible persons, and instead shift the focus to those who’s conduct has truly raised concern, such as persons convicted of violent crime that are frequently paroled early only to commit more crime, or persons who represent a danger to themselves or others due to mental illness that are not identified by the mental health system so as not to “ruin their future”.
The bottom line, and the thing that must be challenged across America, is the presumption of guilt or criminal intent being applied to all citizens even if they have done nothing to warrant it.
July 9th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
I’m in agreeance with the boycott Disney position. Note that this law isn’t about letting people come into their office and toss their .38 snubby up onto the desk. This is simply about them keeping their guns in the cars for goodness sakes. People have things to do before and after work. The state has already passed laws and approved many people to carry a concealed weapon for protection purposes. If they don’t want me to carry at work, then fine, but it’s ludicrous to presume to tell someone that they can’t store their gun in the car out in the parking lot.
July 9th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
While the author of this blog has clear anti-gun sentiments, I am heartened by the responses. Clearly the ability to provide for one’s personal defense is a time honored tradition. Police do not prevent crimes against people, they merely attempt to arrest those who commit the crime, after the fact. I do not know of any instance in which a mugger, rapist or robber, armed with a weapon, laid the weapon down once he or she was informed that they were violating the law. Nor have they ever agreed to defer their attack to allow their victim time to call 911 and for the police to arrive.
If an employer decides to deny an employee the ability to protect themselves while traveling to and from work, I believe that the employer should also assume the liability for any injury or death that befalls that employee due their inability to protect themselves. By announcing its decision, Disney has basically “rung the dinner bell” to carjackers, etc. that Disney employees are “sitting ducks”.
July 9th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Not surprisingly, you got it all backwards. This wasn’t some newfound position for Disney, based on their sudden realization that they might be able to claim exemption under the provisions dealing with federal explosives permits. Disney has been the primary opponent of this law for years, which is why it wasn’t passed until just a couple of months ago, despite several years of attempts to get it done. And the explosives permit provision wasn’t put in for defense factories. They are already specifically excluded. The provision was put in by Disney specifically for Disney. But a misreading (intentional?) of the facts isn’t surprising for someone who is so clueless about what the law is even about to begin with.
July 9th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
I think Disney should have the right to exclude guns from their property. I also think that if they do, they should be held STRICTLY LIABLE for any damages or injury that results from circumstances where having a gun MIGHT have made a difference to any person en route to, at or enroute from Disney property.
For example, Joe decides to take his kids to Disney World. Mindful of their firearms policy, he leaves his gun at home. As goes outside to get into his car. A stray dog bites him.
Disney is liable.
JoAnne, a delivery driver, who doesn’t own a gun, and isn’t aware of Disney’s policy, gets into a fender-bender on the way to deliver packages. She delivered a package to the administrative offices of Disney four hours earlier. The other person involved in the collision is an anti-gun journalist who pulls out his gun (ala Carl Rowan) and shoots JoAnne.
Disney is liable.
A tourist family from Milwaukee arrives in Orlando and checks into their hotel. They plan to visit Disney the next day. Unfortunately, they are robbed in the parking lot of their hotel.
Disney is liable.
This represents an appropriate balancing of rights and responsibilities. Disney can exercise its right to exclude firearms, but it then assumes the responsibility for the safety of everyone who might be injured by their exercise of that right. This is the same standard applied to gun owners. For example, if you’re a Sky Marshall and you leave your gun in the lavatory on an airplane… oh never mind. TSA never accepts responsibility for any of their stupidity.
But you get the idea.
If you’re a private citizen carrying a gun, and you shoot the wrong person, or otherwise make reckless use of your firearm - YOU are responsible.
Fair enough?
July 9th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
I wonder if Disney will next ban blacks from their park? The argument made by the hotel owner in the Heart of Atlanta v. US case was that, …”the act violated his… rights to choose customers and operate his business as he wished…” (Wikipedia)
Isn’t that what Disney is saying?
Of course Disney hasn’t stated a purpose for its discrimination (as far as I know) but it can’t be “safety” since concealed carry permit holders are substantially more law-abiding than the general public, the legislators who draft the laws and the police who enforce the laws.
Maybe the reason is the same as in the Heart of Atlanta case… plain, old-fashioned, pig-ignorance and prejudice.
July 9th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
On July 3 the Orlando Sentinel reported that the Florida legislature DID NOT intend for WDW’s exemption. The Sentinel quotes legislator Peaden:
“I intended it to exempt places like defense plants, Air Force bases, things like that,” said Peaden, who sponsored the bill in the Senate. “But not Disney. Not at all.”
orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-disneyguns0308jul03,0,197883.story
Until the state exempts Disney-it is they who are testing the limits of the law, not Edwin Sotomayer.
Corporations are not allowed to make public policy and interpret the laws of Florida. This is the role and duty of the state. Imagine if Walmart or Burger King or Starbucks decided to interpret the laws and make public policy.
Disney is engaging in civil disobedience; a courageous thing perhaps…but perhaps a reckless thing too.
July 9th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
[…] Discover Magazine’s Reality Base blog talks about Disney World’s ”controversial” position - controversial to the […]
July 10th, 2008 at 12:14 am
Do you think it will be a lawfully abiding citizen that has gone through the process of getting a permit that will go nutjob crazy and shoot up Disney? I don’t, I would be happy as you know what if there was someone there packing heat to cover my back if I got caught in the line of fire.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Bambi,
Be real for goodness sake…the real danger of liability resides with the gun owner…as 10s of thousands die every year as a result of owning a gun…and NOT as a result of failure to defend yourself. What do you think will happen to the Disney business model when ONE deranged/unbalanced employee gun owner opens fire in the parks. It ain’t gonna be good.
Disney has every right to protect itself…just like the right you claim you need. And it is their property. You can’t have it both ways.
Any real examination of facts shows that guns are many times more likely to kill their owners, a family member or a friend, then they are likely to be used in self-defense to prevent an armed attack or burglary. You want that risk…assume it yourself…don’t force others to assume that risk.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
So, because Disney does NOT allow persons to protect themselves legally while on THEIR premises, when the criminals (who don’t follow the law to begin with) attack us in the parking lot, can we then sue Disney for aiding and abetting? I mean, they are preventing us from protecting ourselves, right? Thus if we get murdered because we cannot protect ourselves, can our survivors not charge them with being an accessory to murder? Really Disney is tying our hands behind our backs in preventing us from defending ourselves. The criminals already know Disney doesn’t allow firearms.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Timbo, am I missing something here, 10″s of thousands that die as a result of owning a gun? How do you figure that?
July 10th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Timbo your quote of “Any real examination of facts shows that guns are many times more likely to kill their owners, a family member or a friend, then they are likely to be used in self-defense to prevent an armed attack or burglary” is one of the most ludicrous statements I have ever heard.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
The last post by “Timbo” is a typical recitation of “pseudofacts” manufactured by the liberal press.
Any examination of REAL facts would reveal that all of those babblings are B.S. nonsense.
Would that nonsense be the case; the introduction of mandatory-issue concealed programs in each state would have resulted in increases of crime and injury, instead of the decreases that have been experienced in the real world.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Lets dont overlook an important part of this law - “invited guest and visitors” do not have to comply with this law, even if they park in the same lot. It is for employees only, not visitors or guest. Working at Universal, which is making some of the same statements to its employees, were all waiting to see who is going to be the “test” to the law. It will take time, maybe several years to work out.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
I can’t wait until someone gets attacked on their way to or from work, and because they are unable to defend themselves sues their employer - especially Disney - for contributing to the crime by disarming the victim.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Disney is not above the law. I live ten miles from Disney, crime around Disney is very high. Disney hide most crime that occurs on their property by paying off duty office to look the other way. Self defense is a human right. No weapon are allowed into the parks, only inside the staffs locked vehicles.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
The criminals will have guns, no stopping that. All the awful shootings at schools, malls, and other public places end the same way. The shooter(s) die. Sometimes they kill themselves, sometimes they are shot. Anything that speeds up getting them shot is a good idea. A private citizen that has responsibly taken the training, been finger printed, and earned the right to a concealed carry permit is someone I want to have a gun on their person, ready to act if needed. While I respect an employers right inside their work buildings, to refuse employees to keep firearms in their vehicles is stupid. I like Bambi’s comments on Disney being liable.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
The state of Florida has ruled on the individual rights of individuals to store a firearm in their vehicle at work. Where they screwed up was putting any loophole or provision in it to abridge that right. The legislator should correct their error. Looks like I’ll be going to Sea World and Busch Gardens (both owned by Anheuser Busch) instead of spending my money at Disney and Universal.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
It’s nice to see such a fair and balanced reporting on the issue, kudo’s to Discover magazine for a balanced approach to journalism.
I’m interested to see what kind of teeth the law has and how soon will busnesses like Disney be prosecuted under the new law.
and Seawold rocks! I was planning a trip to Universal Studios for 5 days next month, but will now instead go to Seaworld, Busch Gardens, and Aquatica. It’s also nice to see a company respect the lives AND the civil rights of their employee’s. I go to Disney every year for a week and now will be making plans to only patronize businesses that respect my rights. Sorry Mickey, your company is a bunch of Commies!
thats all im saying….
July 10th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Not surprised to see the author was an associate editor @ Huffington P. LOL
Where exactly do the anti-gun zealots, come to the conclusion that a firearm, locked in a vehicle is a safety hazard to them ?
Where do they get the idea, that laws prevent shootings ?
Where do they get the idea that anyone needs a CWP to have a weapon in their vehicle ?
Guess what ? FACT - Unless you are dealing with Federal property, I (or anyone) has the same rights of possession to property in their car, as they do their home. A CWP has nothing to do with it. As long as it is in my vehicle (even if said vehicle is in a parking lot of business X), the weapon is in/on MY property. Now, the second I step out of the vehicle with the weapon on me that is a different ballgame alltogether, we are not discussing that however.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Timbo: Your facts are unsubstantiated and incorrect. I refer you to the works of John R. Lott, previously the John M. Olin Visiting Law and Economics Fellow at the University of Chicago Law School. In particular, a review of “More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws” is informative since this work is replete with verifiable citations. If you examine the bulk of citations supporting your premise, you will find that they overwhelmingly cite to media reports based on expert opinion rather than empirical data. Some experts refer to supporting data, however instead of providing source data, they only provide summaries or conclusions.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Where does “Timbo” get these numbers? 10’s of thousands? Let me guess, the Brady campaign? When will the elitist left wing media realize that what not only Florida but the entire country needs is enforcement of laws and prosecution of criminals. Are the left wing wackos really that out of touch with everyday America? I have a permit and carry a gun not with the hopes of ever using it but knowing that if the need should arise I am prepared. What do you think the average response time is for a police officer to show up at a crime scene? The same people who support Disney’s stance are probably the same people that would like to see our country run by a Socialist.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Yet another uninformed lib spouting off and revealing their ignorance. First, private companies do not get a “pass” on the Bill of Rights. When the Founding Fathers said “the people,” they meant THE PEOPLE. When citizens have the right to peaceably assemble, speak their minds (even if it’s complete stupidity like the writer of this blog), and are armed, it prevents a tyrant from taking control. You might want to spend some time learning history to find out the first thing dictators like Hitler and Castro did was to ban private ownership of firearms. Second, the Bill of Rights are NOT rights granted by the government, they are our God-given rights — the line in the sand that the founders wanted to insure government never crossed. Third, are any of you libs EVER going to say what the law really allows? It does not allow employees to bring guns INTO the work place, it only allows employees who hold concealed weapons permits (and thereby have under gone an extensive criminal background check) to keep firearms SECURED IN THEIR VEHICLES! So miss lib blogger, the workers at Sea World are NOT “packing heat” as you imply. I bet you and people like you are “embarrassed” to be Americans too! What a bunch of losers!
July 10th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
First off Bambi:
“If you’re a private citizen carrying a gun, and you shoot the wrong person, or otherwise make reckless use of your firearm - YOU are responsible.”
Law Enforcement Officers are held libel for all out come if they use their weapon good or bad.
Now Timbo:
“Be real for goodness sake…the real danger of liability resides with the gun owner…as 10s of thousands die every year as a result of owning a gun”
Where are these 10’s of thousands that die because they own guns? Are these guns emitting some dangerous radiation that is causing unexplained cancer in their owners? Or perhaps you are referring to the people who purchase illegal weapons because an irresponsible sub culture preaches that you aren’t a man unless you “pop a cap” in anyone who makes you mad.
The cornerstone issue is not gun ownership but illegal gun ownership.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Disney has stepped over the line for sure. I have been a fan of Disney for many years and an investor of their shares as well. This assault on the rights of the people has given me have a change of heart and I have divested my position of all shares in the company. I will not visit the park again until they re-think their stance.
I would like to say that I feel a real pride in reading some of the posts here that defend the right to keep and carry a weapon. This is the most precious right of all and we need to stand strong against the idiots that see no value in it. I salute you.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Timbo,
The danger does not lie with the gun owner. The danger lies with the person who is getting shot at. Owning a gun does not increase your likelyhood of getting shot, there is simply a correlation between people who are shot, and people who have guns in the home. There is not an established cause and effect relationship.
The Kellerman study to which you refer, simply showed that of those that were killed with a gun, most had a gun in their home. This could be explained by the fact that most that were killed had a criminal background, and most criminals have guns. It can also be explained by the fact that around half of households have guns in them.
The Kellerman study has been debunked many times.
See here http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgaga.html
and here http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,7217,00.html
A study done in Baltimore showed that around 90% of homicide victims had previous criminal records, and nationally around 70% of murderers have prior convictions for violent crime.
This implies that the way to avoid being murdered is to not commit crimes, and to not associate with criminals. Gun ownership rates are typically higher in rural areas, and murder rates are typically much lower in rural areas. Did Kellerman address this contradiction to his results? No.
The law in Florida only allows those with a concealed weapons permit to carry a weapon in their cars. Criminals cannot get a CWP, neither can anyone with any history of violent crime, or mental defectiveness.
Lastly, anyone bent on opening “fire in the parks” will not be dissuaded from doing so because he is afraid he might get fired for violating the weapons policy of Disney.
-Dan
July 10th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
I dont know why the people that work there cant keep there mouth shut and bring them anyways. They dont check your cars. So bring your gun for your saftey and hope you never need to use it, and if you do, you lose your job but at least you still have your life.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
As the parking lot is Disneys property, an employees car is private and disney should have no right to search it.
And Timbo as you might be correct that facts show that guns are many times more likely to kill their owners, a family member or a friend, then they are likely to be used in self-defense to prevent an armed attack or burglary, these are more times by people that are NOT PROPPERLY TRAINED in the use of handguns. anyone with a clean record can buy a gun and obtain a Carry Permit, BUT are they trained to use it and secure it?
Its also a fact that every year over 2,000,000 americans use firearms to preserve life and limb. ( and there not all Law Enforcement).
As far as an Employee going nuts and shooting up his place of employment(ie. Disney) whats to stop this person from driving home to retreive his handgun and coming back???
Such anti-gun laws do nothing but leave lawfully abiding citizen’s Un-ptotected and easy targets, they do not affect criminal’s, when was the last time you heard of a criminal obeying the law!!!
July 10th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Lest we not overlook the best part. By “exempting” themselves of the new law, they are “exempting” themselves for the protection the law provides emplyers.
The new law states that employers now are protected from litigation resulting from and incident involving a firearm. By exempting themselves, Disney does not want that protection obviously.
People brought firearms to Disney before, both employees and customers, and will still continue to do so. It is not likely that they checked the vehicles of the stated 60,000 employees every day. According to the law, you do NOT need a CC to have a firearm in your vehicle, but do now in order to have one locked in your car at work.
The major issue the new law dealt with was to relieve the responsibility of firearm incidents from the employer, and put it where it belongs, on the GUN OWNER. The anti-gun people are trying to divert attention from the big change the new law created, by trying to get people to thing humanity will end because of something alot of people already did.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
BTW
Under the new Gun Law:
1) Businesses are no longer liable if someone who has a gun in their car uses it to harm anyone on the property. Disney has No Liability if someone “goes nuts and shoots up the place”
2) This law Only allows you to keep a gun in your car, Not carry it on your person
3) Private Property Rights DO NOT Trump Individual Rights. It is really that simple. Our Individual Civil Rights are greater than even our governments rights, and especially our property rights. Libs/Commies/Democrats just dont get that. Read the Constitution sometime, it is really amazing stuff!
July 10th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Like David said,
Customers and visiters are not stopped from having a firearm in their vehicles. The law only applies to the workers of the companies. By the new law, workers that hold a concealed carry license are allowed to keep a firearm in their locked vehicle(no matter what company policy states) Workers that dont hold a CCL are not allowed to have a firearm in their vehicle if the company policy states they dont allow firearms on the property.
Its a simple law. Second amendment!!!
July 10th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Lets see, The Orlando Rat says not in my backyard or my parking lot, yet, we (including myself) who have been trained in the use and care of firearms, who have proved we are proficient in the use of that firearm and we who submit to extensive background checks, fingerprinting and all the other things we go through to be able to carry our weapons, are not allowed to exercise our right of self defense. In the last count, 85% of Floridians support the decision our state legislators made when they enacted the Guns in your CAR bill, not, as the Brady Campaign and the Florida Chamber call it, the “guns to work bill”. Gun free zones and anti gun laws say one thing loud and clear, it tells a felon that no one here is going to be able to do anything when you decide you want to carjack, rob us or worst of all cause great bodily harm to our person. Calling 911 is a good thing and recommended as a first line of thought, but with that thought you must be realistic, they will not prevent the crime in most cases, the damage will be done by the time that that patrol car arrives. I prefer to be alive to file my side of the story or to face the consequences if I have made an error in my judgement. As for the anti gun hype that says guns kill their owners, it is just that, Hype shoved down our throats by the likes of the Brady Campaigns warning billboards that warn tourists that Floridians can use deadly force to defend themselves and that they should think twice before coming here to vacation. Responsible gun ownership is a right provided to us by the second amendment (which by the way was not granted by the Supreme Court, It was granted in the Constitution many years ago), criminals that use guns have in most cases already committed a felony by even being in possession of a firearm, which brings me to my last point, gun laws really only penalize honest, law abiding gun owners, criminals do not, have not and never will obey any handgun laws. I prefer to stay the way the second amendment affords me, to be armed, responsible and alive with the ability to LAWFULLY defend myself.
written by a former narcotics officer
July 10th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Disney’s position only prevents employees from protecting themselves in the coming and going to work. It doesn’t prevent customers from exercising their rights to bear arms. In Florida, concealed permit or not, you can carry a loaded gun in your car, provided it is in a compartment with a lid and latch (i.e. center console/glovebox). I assure you that there are many well-armed customers. The only thing Disney has done is put their employees at great risk to criminals outside of the workplace. Rest assured, someone will be hurt, someone will sue, and Disney will pay. Current Disney employees may consider changing their routes to work to include the roughest neighborhood in town to expedite the process.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
I love when the NRA and their die hard supporters lose a round. Clearly from all the whining here, you just can’t handle it when some sanity prevails with regard to gun laws. Go ahead, boycott Disney. I beg you. If you don’t like the policies they have in place for THEIR PRIVATE PROPERTY, then don’t work there and don’t spend your vacation there. That will mean a few less gun toting nut balls on the property for me and my family to worry about. Of course, like EVERY right wing organization that has launched a boycott of Disney in the past, your efforts will ultimately fail. The NRA represents an extreme core of those who choose to own firearms in this country. They do not represent the typical gun owner who is a law abiding citizen with a life that does not revolve around their firearm 24/7. I’m not going to try and argue with gun extremists by using facts when it comes to gun violence and the complete lack of any statistical evidence that personal gun ownership [a] makes you any safer or [b] deters violent criminals from committing their heinous acts. There are hundreds of NON-PARTISAN studies here and abroad that point to the truth but, as you can see here, the NRA cadre likes to stick their head in the sand and trot out the tired, old “liberal media” defense. The NRA and it’s core of vocal supporters do not care about facts. Period. They want a fully armed society and reveal their “High Noon” mentality with support of legislation like this in Florida.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
By the way…you might want to check crime statistics for Disney property and compare them with those in the surrounding metro-Orlando area. You are infinitely safer on their property than you are roaming the streets of O-Town. Oh, FLABCHBUM, you must not have been to church lately. Indeed, private property rights DO trump individual rights every day in this country. Religious organizations are routinely exempted from many of the laws that support our individual rights and pay no taxes on their often vast property holdings. Private organizations that receive no government funding are also routinely exempted from many local, state and federal laws. Heard of the Boy Scouts? Sorry if the facts get in the way of your anti-liberal hysteria. Now go back and hug your gun.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Exactly. Disney, the local shopping mall, Publix, Wal-Mart, whomever…. they can post a sign stating no weapons allowed, they can publish policy, a homeowner can say “no guns in my home”. Thing is, NONE OF IT has any force of law.
However, a property owner, or designated representative, may ask you to leave, or, better yet, tell you to leave. They need not say why. If you do not leave immediatley, then they may have you Trespassed. In the case of having a weapon on your person at the time, then you would have just been guilty of an Armed Trespass.
Printing a sign, and publishing a policy, making a news release, does not mean a new law just happened.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Timbo get your facts straight. (U.S. Department of Justice) From 1997 to 2005 Gun related crime has fell 39% overall. More than 1/2 of all gun related deaths are suicides. In 2004 66% of 16,137 murders were committed with a firearm. Not good, but I wonder what else they were using?) Note that the drop in gun violence and deaths are in direct correlation to Florida and many other States adopting concealed weapon permit laws. Florida has an average of (3) gun related deaths per 100,00 permit holders.
Since 1987 when Florida initiated the CCP only 0.02% permits have been permantly Revoked. Bottom line is that crime of all types have gone down drastically in States that allow their citizens to defend themselves and others. So check your facts before you shoot (Woops) your mouth off.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
My family, friends and I began boycotting Disney when it thumbed its corporate nose at its patrons by refusing to warn parents and children when it held Gay Pride Week at Disney and refused to issue refunds when people stumbled upon it. If you ever have the misfortune to unwittingly attend this Disney-sponsored circus, you’ll understand.
This incident is just another of ultra-left Disney’s sanctimonious acts and it’s time they were severely punished where it huts most: in the corporate wallet.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Having a firearm in my possession has kept my wife and I from becoming a victim at least twice as of recent memory. I live in South Florida where there is a serious problem with strong arm robberies in parking lots with patrons leaving a retail store. Once I was acosted by three men one wielding a stick the other time my wife was putting groceries in the car when she was approached by a man from behind who reached into our car. Both times the bad-guys fled when I quickly produced my Glock 19 and gave a loud verbal warning. The second amendment was exactly written for just such occassions. The police are not always there to protect you and you should not expect them to. They are more times then not after the fact. The Founding Fathers knew exactly what they were doing. It is obvious by their individual writings on the matter of personal gun ownership. Disney is acting with the typical “Nanny” mentality that people need to be controlled. Forget about personal responsibility and Freedon, you don’t want or need that. We’ll take care of you… Really. Oh I forgot, when you get robbed at Disney World, Mickey dosen’t need a gun!
July 10th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Simple solution…revoke Disney’s permit to use explosives! I’m sure we’ll get over it if we don’t see a fireworks show. Although not employed by the mouse, I, for one, always carry, even if and when I visit the Mickey land.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
This is cut and dry. I am a gun owner and a proud member of the N.R.A. I have been shot in the past by criminals. I will carry my guns anywhere I please in accordance with the laws and my concealed weapons permit allow. A loophole will not sway my actions one bit. Disney as well as other buisnesses can only tell you you are fired or to leave the property if you are a patron. Guess what, I have carried my pistols while my freinds and family were in Disney, Universal and the Homestead and Daytona 500 races. I will not stand by when it comes to mine and my families saftey or even a innocent stranger for that matter. Anyone who does not own and carry a weapon for self deffense should realy think things through.
What if you walked away from your family while at a establishment to use the restroom and returned to see the buisness was being robed. You look and see your wife or husband and children as well as a employee on their knees pleeding for their life!!! Next thing you know, the assailiant pulls the trigger and shoots the attendant of the buisness establishment and now is moving the gun towards your family….. What do you? Fact being that you are one of those anti-gun people who do not believe in our constitution and dont own a gun. This is the part where you wished to God you had a gun and exercise your constitutional right to bear arms.
If you choose not to own a gun, that is your choice and right. However, do not push your anti-gun garbage to the point where they are trying to ban guns because you are scared you will shoot yourself. Get some training for Godsake. No one was a pro the first time they did everything. You have to walk before you crawl. If you try to skip a step you can get hurt. Guns are like alot of things on this earth. If you are not trained to handle them, you could injure or kill yourself or others. Can a car not ijure or kill if its not used properly? Did you not have instructions and training on how to operate a motor vehical as well as being tested? Did you get a drives license? Have cars been considered weapons in court cases under certain circumstanses.
The answer obviously should have been yes to all those question. So with that in mind, maybey we should try to ban motor vehicals too!!! That way no one can accidentley injure or kill anyone. After that, we can lock each other in padded rooms for the rest of our lives to ensure no other accidents happen either.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Human rights are inalienable, meaning they are unchanging. Self-defense is a human right; it’s unchanging. What changes the unchanging when you enter Disneyland? Which other human rights do you lose on Disney’s property? The right to breathe? The right not to be tortured? Every criminal assault IS torture. The presumption of innocence is a human right; gun control disarms people because it presumes them guilty of a crime. So, gun control violates the presumption of innocence, another human right. Violating the rights of thousands or millions of people represents thousands or millions of crimes. Gun control pretends to reduce criminality but increases it hugely. How does a massive crime increase reduce crime?
July 10th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
A “gun-free” zone is synonymous with an open invitation to criminals or otherwise deranged bearers of ill will, to “come on down!” Those of us who hold a concealed weapon permit have voluntarily submitted to the necessary scrutiny and training for one purpose: to protect oneself against armed criminals. Any law enforcement agency in the Country will tell you that its primary obligation is to protect society as a whole and not the individual. Given the seemingly unending supply of armed criminals how can overworked and understaffed law enforcement be expected to be omnipresent in order to protect each individual?
Well-intentioned legislators have actually unknowingly exacerbated violence when they have created gun-free zones such as schools and college campuses. Had duly-licensed-to-carry faculty, students or visitors been armed at Virginia Tech, there is a strong possibility that the deranged shooter could have been neutralized with many lives saved.
I have asked the NRA, as well as done personal research, and can find not one single instance where a person with a concealed weapon permit has ever committed an act of armed violence with a weapon “illegally” taken into a school or gun-free zone. Any number of police and sheriff’s deputies have told me that if I were in a mall and, becuse I was legally armed, stopped a ciminal or lunatic from randomly slaughtering innocent civilians,they would not know how to thank me enough for being there when they were not. I doubt that the concept of what is tantamount to an armed militia of citizens licensed to carry concealed weapons would seem to our Founding Fathers in any way inconsistent with their intentions when writing the Second Ammendment.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Timbo spouts all of the lies of the Brady idiots
He has to be one of thier 20 menbers. I wonder
if they used bleach when they brain wahed him.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Let me just say, I hope Disney World has enjoyed the money my family has spent in the past, for I can insure you that as for this family and others at my unit we will never daken the doors of that park again. We in the United States Military have fought for the Constitution and what it stands for and when a Company that large wastes its money on lawyers to find a way to thumb there noses at the Supreme Court and search the vehicals of there employees for only one reason. I think every family in America should botcott them and let them make there money off of the many millions of tourist from other countries that hate our freedom and values.Or just move to one of those countries and let that land go back to the way it used to be, some of the best cattle land in the state of Florida.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Guns are bad, guns kill people. Don’t all of you know that. Why would you ever hold the individual responsible for their actions. It’s the guns fault, and all the law abiding citizens that follow the laws in the first place. BAD GUNS, BAD BAD GUNS. Sorry, had to break it down to the liberal level.
So why are Disney’s employee’s lives any less important than the rest of Floridians. You can bet the original Walt Disney is turning over in his grave at the blatent disregard for our constitution and the protection it offers individuals. Second Ammendment Primer is a book where a member of the ACLU(American Communist Liberties Union) set out to disprove the Second Ammendment and actually realized it meant excatly what it said. Imagine that. At least one liberal can read.(I know, I know, immature insults) It’s fitting though.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
I could see Disney’s position only on the grounds that their employment contracts prohibits employees from bringing weapons onto their grounds. That would be a legitimate condition of employment a person would have to accept in order to take the job. Then Disney has a contractual means to fire someone. But if that is not in existing employment contracts, it seems to me that Disney has a problem with obeying Florida Law.
I am a democrat but am opposed to gun control laws because only law abiding people are affected by them, leaving the criminals to arm themselves as they see fit.
Since we KNOW criminals won’t obey such laws all that lawmakers are saying with any control law is, “let’s let criminals have guns but let’s disarm everyone else”
But until I know the situation re. Disney employment agreements I have to with hold judgment on this one. I’m sure that as we speak, Disney’s attorneys are busy re-writing their employment agreements for future employees.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
I bet that Walet Disney World does not publish facts on rapes,muggigins,autos broken into, thefts from rooms at the hotels on there property .And if it is so safe why do they need there on security people in the first place ? Its called a false sense of saftey and they are not going to jeperdise any lose of monies becasuse of what they think ,and how they want to present its self to the general public thats whhy the call it the Magic Kingdom . Face it folks peolple like Disney and others feel they are a law only to themselves thats why they have a gajillon law dogs working for them that they pay a ton of money to and its not for any other reason than to keep people from sueing them when bad things happen to you or your kids ,to bad Disney did not disclouse any facts about the people that haven fallen victum to predatory people employes as well as guest lets all take a trip to fantasy land.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
My family loves Disney World and we visit just about every year, but this policy is ludicrous!
Just last year a couple was abducted at gun point from the Downtown Disney parking lot. The idea that Disney can completely prevent anyone from bringing a gun onto its property is a delusion. Instead of worrying about a licensed, law abiding employee whose gun is locked in his car, they better start focusing on the crime that occurs in the less secure parts of the property.
With regard to its employees, it is unfair to ask folks to disarm themselves while traveling to work. Crime stories from the Orlando area make it onto the web and into the local New York papers just about everyday. Orlando is as risky a place to live as any other city and people have the right to protect themselves.
I expect that, as is usually the case with large corporations, this policy is driven by liability concerns. The corporate lawyers and Disney’s insurers have probably determined that allowing their employees to keep a gun locked in their private car poses a financial risk to the company. However, as pointed out by Bambi, I think it will just be a matter of time until some Disney Employee becomes a crime victim while unarmed because they were traveling to or from work. And you can all but guarantee that a suit will follow that will not only cost Disney some money, but will be a black eye to the company due to this myopic policy.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
I will not patronize Disney or Universal from this point on. If a company that is geared towards children decides to sidestep the law through a loophole, that shows me their true colors. Nope, no Mouse for me, I will however be more than happy to take my grandkids to Seaworld and B. Gardens. I will encourage my out of state relatives and friends to avoid the rodent and instead spend their money at Seaworld and BG.
Timbo, you’re misinformed my poor fellow. What you stated sounds like it came straight from HCI’s website. Fact is, there are no statisics that prove you comments, since the only information that the anti-gun crowd can use, is invented by themselves. 10s of thousands? Think about what you typed.
Interesting thought: if the State of Florida had passed a law making it illegal for a business to force an employee or vistor to allow their private vehicle to be searched, I bet there wouldn’t have been all this fuss and the ultimate goal would still have been reached.
Think I will go pop the top on a cold beer. Guess what brand!
July 10th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Disney has been a left-wing outfit since Walt died. Remember it is Disney that owns ABC News, so this whole gun thing is not out of character.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
TO ALL THE ANTI GUNNERS: LAw abiding citizens are not the criminals. Disney thinks they are above the law and the size of their corporation makes them think they can dictate policy for the individual and the state. Dont you know what this smells of? Fachism (yea its probably not spelled right) but thats what it is pure and simple. Yes I have my CCW and I feel safer knowing I can protect myself, my family or even strangers at a restaurant etc if a criminal wants to make them a statistic. The police can’t be everywhere 24/7. The point being Disney thinks its above the lawe and no one is…
July 10th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
To ALL Disney Employees: How to win the Disney Lottery!
Buy a gun and get a concealed weapons permit. Then either:
(a) disobey the mouse’s guidelines and protect yourself but enjoy the punitive award from a lawsuit against Disney if Disney should fire you
(b) obey the mouse and leave your gun at home but but enjoy the damages from a lawsuit against Disney if you should come under attack (make sure your loved ones are aware of this fact in the event the attack is fatal)
Some REAL stats:
# of law abiding citizens committing gun crimes: 0
# of criminals that obey the laws: 0
% of criminals that want more gun control laws: 100%
Wise up!
July 10th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
I love how the example is always used that ” all it takes is one nutjob…” they previosly had a statistic on the Florida Dept. Of Agriculture, the issueing body of the conceal carry permits that stated a regular citizen without a conceal carry permit was 400% more likley to commit a crime than a conceal-carry permit holder. Permit holders by thier very nature tend to be very law abiding citizens. The adovactes for more gun control, on the other hand often tend to be, well wealthy and not in much need to worry about defending themselves. The author of this article is a former attorney and writer for the New York post etc, Micheal Bloomburge, a billionaire, Rosie O’donnel, famous TV personality/comedian etc. these people that think you don’t need a gun because you probably don’t in the Mayor’s mansion or on the upper east side penthouse suite. hell you don’t need one at Disney, but lets face it, alot of use have to drive back home after a trip to the magic kingdom without the benefit of a limo complete with body guards. Come spend a week in East fort myers and see if you still think you don’t need a gun to protect yourself and your family. The facts are that the 37 states with conceal carry permits have had declining crime rates ever since there introduction where as the violent crime rates in places like NYC, Chicago, and LA continue to rise to new levels.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
So since employees cant carry on Disney property( parking lot, in their cars) does this mean they are providing 24 hr security to prevent an employee from getting assulted or killed, or a family ( some who carry large amounts of cash) from getting mugged an assulted while visiting their property , will they assume responsibility for such incident should it occur.Criminals now know that employees and people visiting are now un-armed.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
The Law should read that if a Person Who is licensed for Concealed carry is denied that right and said Person becomes a victim of a Violent Crime on the posted Property then the Owner/Owners would be held Liable by Law for any and all Injuries and for Compensation to said Injured Person.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
I am deeply, greatly, grievously concerned that Disney has a fireworks permit that allows it to store fireworks in such a haphazard manner that a lawfully permitted gun locked in a car in employee parking when combined with the storage of fireworks could create a public hazard.
I recommend that all fireworks permits be immediately suspended until it can be proved that their storage is not susceptable to this hazard.
Someone call 911.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
I already e-mailed disney and let them no will not be taking any cruises with them or visiting there parks
July 10th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
This is a simple problem. Disney asserts its right to protect itself, its property and its customers by not allowing guns on its property. Fine. The public asserts its right under the constitution to keep and bear. DONT GO TO DISNEY, or go to Disney and keep your gun CONCEALED where it belongs, out of sight, not subject to scrutiny, if Mickey Mouse or GOOFEY cant see it, he cant complain about it. WDW does not yet have the right to search your vehicle or your person before entering, if they try, I would love to see the drive by liberal media try and bury that quietly.
MONEY TALKS, boycott the mouse and all of his liberal cronies. No cartoon character is going to violate my constitutional rights.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Timbo…you are an idiot! Or more exactly..an anti gun kook. Thank God for the NRA and our Constitution and Bill of Rights! Without these and the PROPER interpretation of the Founding Fathers’ meaning; nut jobs like you would appoint your Liberal/Left Wing/Democratic/Communist/Socialist friends as dictators of this Nation!
Is is because we have weapons and the RIGHT to own them that we ARE a free Nation!
July 10th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Miss or Mrs or Ms. Lafsky, whatever it is trying to be PC here.
At the end of the day we have won, the supreme court has ruled and are right remain intact for now.
It amazes me how badly this is effecting you and the rest of the anti-gun people out there. Resorting to down right lying, spinning, and deception. Call it the “take guns to work” law (spin) and running poles such as the WFTV.com pole..
“The NRA is taking aim at Disney. A new law just went on the books in Florida that says people are allowed to bring their guns to work, but it’s not the case at Central Florida’s largest employer. Do you think Disney employees should be allowed to bring guns to work?”
WTH? Do you see this crap? “PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO BRING THEIR GUNS TO WORK”
This is crazy, a lie and deceptive. I dont think they were expecting 80% of those polled to reply YES.
http://www.wftv.com/news/16784153/detail.html
Thank GOD anti-gunners are the minority here in Florida and I feel sorry for those of you that live in states that don’t have the same self defense laws that the great state of Florida has today.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Disney has explosive material on its property and this give “them” the right to keep firearms off this property for reasons of public safety? Well, then how about matches, lighters, batteries, propane tanks on rvs,and what about no,nada,NONE radio frequencies from the communication centers?? There are many more rules annd regs that Disney is ignoring thereby endangering all those who enter Disney property. I suspect that OSHA should be apprised of the existing dangers on king rat premises.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
I agree with what Legislator Peaden had to say and the Orlando Sentinel quoted him:
“I intended it to exempt places like defense plants, Air Force bases, things like that,” said Peaden, who sponsored the bill in the Senate. “But not Disney. Not at all.”
Until the state exempts Disney - it is they who are testing the limits of the law, not Edwin Sotomayor.
Corporations are not allowed to make public policy and interpret the laws of Florida. This is the role and duty of the state. Imagine if Walmart or Burger King or Starbucks decided to interpret the laws and make public policy.
Disney is engaging in civil disobedience; a courageous thing perhaps…but perhaps a reckless thing too.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
This is a simple problem. Disney asserts its right to protect itself, its property and its customers by not allowing guns on its property. Fine. The public asserts its right under the constitution to keep and bear. DONT GO TO DISNEY, or go to Disney and keep your gun CONCEALED where it belongs, out of sight, not subject to scrutiny, if Mickey Mouse or GOOFEY cant see it, he cant complain about it. WDW does not yet have the right to search your vehicle or your person before entering, if they try, I would love to see the drive by liberal media try and bury that quietly.
MONEY TALKS, boycott the mouse and all of his liberal cronies. No cartoon character is going to violate my constitutional rights without it costing him something out of his own pocket.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
I think a few things need to be pointed out here.
I think Disney’s claim to the exemption is bogus. The exemption is extended to entities that manufacture or use federally regulated explosives as their “primary business.” It was intended to cover defense plants and military bases. Disney’s “primary business” is not making or using fireworks. It could probably prohibit firearms for the employees that are specifically engaged in the production of those fireworks if they parked in a specific area, but not everyone who works for them. And Disney already knows this. Their Vero Beach Resort employees don’t have to follow the restrictive theme park rules.
Disney also can’t enforce this rule against it’s guests. I’ve carried my concealed weapon the park and have even checked it with security at the Magic Kingdom(Security was friendly and it was treated as a routine event). If Disney is not afraid its millions of unknown guests are deranged killers it’s probably irrational to fear its employees are.
And speaking of irrationality, fear directed at concealed weapons permit holdes is entirely misplaced. They have proven themselves to be amoung the most law abidng of citizens. Out of the 500,000(approx) CWPs issued in Florida over the last 20 years(approx) only 100 or so have been revoked because the permit holder did something criminal. The revocation rate is something on the order of .007%. If Disney was thinking rationally about this instead of ideologically they would not see concealed weapons permit holders as a threat to public safety, because they aren’t. If anything Disney would be safer hiring as many concealed weapons permit holders as they can given the exceptionally law abiding nature of such people.
Finally, I think Disney’s anti-self defense bias is revealed further in their obstinate belief that they can create a gun free safety zone for their employees and presumably their guests by extension. Such “gun free” zones have proven themselves to be total failures in protecting people from being shot by a gun at schools and post offices. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the larget mass murder in US history occurred in the “gun free” safety zone that the University of Virginia thought it was protecting itself with. If you’ve noticed, deranged killers don’t go to police stations or shooting ranges in search of helpless victims. They seek out places with the greatest concentration of unarmed victims(which is why I always feel a little exposed at places like theme parks and sports stadiums).
Anyway, Disney needs to realise that Fantasy Land only exists inside their theme park. The rest of us live outside in the reality world where individual safety is very important to people. Disney should not endanger its “family” of employees by saying they can’t keep a lawfully possessed firearm in their vehicles at work. And it should obey the laws of Florida in the safe way it would expect its employees to.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
I have a concealed weapon permit. When I park at Disney’s lot, I will leave my gun in the car and available. I have only a few family members who know I carry. That is what concealed is about. I am not one to give advance notice to attackers that I am armed, they will find out the hard way. If I am attacked in a Disney lot or any lawful place where I can legally carry, there is no question, I will defend myself, then deal with the lawsuit. It is absolutely incredible that there are people in this world that can’t accept the fact that there is a difference between evil and good. If evil is armed, so must good be armed. I can’t imagine the possibility of someone in my family harmed in my presence, while I stand by helplesssly begging for mercy from a merciless criminal.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
FlaBchBum,
Your first point about liability is exactly why the author of the blog will hate the new law. Lawyers hate any law that says they can’t file frivolous laws suites against someone.
You know like the jacka— lawyer that actually help a criminals family win a suite against a home owner that shot there son/brother for breaking into their house. And let not forget about the piece of —- judge (lawyer) that let this happen.
The good news is we can keep our freedom for a few more years, they wont try to take it completely until we are disarmed.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Florida Legislators and Attorney General Bill Mccollum needs to do whats right and charge Disney with violating Florida state laws. What the above article did not include was that a 13 year employee of Disney thought his right to bear arms was worth standing up for. That got him fired and Disney made sure that every Disney cast member knew that. So as a result law abiding cast members with CWP’s that also need their jobs are forced to put their safety and well being at risk. Disney is not above the laws of the state of Florida or above our constitional rights. Just because Disney is a major employeer in Florida, just because Disney visitors bring major revenue to the state of Florida it doesnt not give Disney the right to be above the law. Boycott’s dont work, making Disney and Universal abide by the laws of the state of Florida does.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
I frankly don’t care one iota if Disney is or isn’t liable for my death as a result of being unable to defend myself against an attacker. I’d be dead (or maimed or whatever) anyways. I have, and therefore shall exercise, my constitutional right to keep and bear arm regardless of some idiot Mousketeer’s policies.
By the way, children under 10 are over ten times more likely to die as a result of a swimming pool accident than a gun accident. (this is per the centers for disease control, by the way) Since we have a constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms, and no such protection exists for swimming pool accidents, shouldn’t we ban pools instead? Oddly enough, there are more guns than pools in America too.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
For all oppose to this law you are missing the whole point. As the Supreme Court has ruled, the 2nd amendment to the Constitution applies to an individual, NOT a militia.
Do we not care at all about the Constitution? Tell me what other amendment you don’t like….
1st Freedom of religion, speech, press, petition, and assembly
4th Searches and seizures; warrants
6th Rights of the accused, Right to a speedy public trial
13th Abolition of slavery
14th Citizenship, state due process, state equal protection, applies Bill of Rights to the States
I could go on… But the point is you either believe in our Constitutional rights, or you don’t. It’s just like religion… you either believe in God or you don’t.
And by the way, the Constitution gives you the right to believe or not, as well as be able to contribute to this blog.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
I agree wholeheartedly with FL_gunowner and the others who are chastising Disney for its stance on guns in cars. However, some research needs to be done. When Walt Disney was deciding where to build Disney World 30-some years ago, he had Orlando, Fl0rida and somewhere in Georgia and Texas in mind. He met and negotiated with then-Governor Claude Kirk who basically “gave up the ranch” to him to get him to forget Georgia and Texas. Disney is exempt from many of Florida’s laws — by law. For example, the Reedy Creek subdivision which was built by Disney and is largely still owned by Disney. Residents there, who are many of Disney’s foreign employees, have no right to privacy. Disney security can enter the homes and apartments without a warrant and, if deemed advisable, without knocking. There are many more such exemptions.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
This entire situation is play on public sentimate and a scare tactic by an over zealous fascist like organization, hell bent on proving property rights trump constitutional and personal guarantees provide3d by the constitution. Disney’s management feels they are above the law and now have a case going forward which will destroy their house of cards. Since they are so large they feel like they can bully their employees and others , plus get away with it. Wrong. There are hundreds of years of Constitutional law precedence to back up the workers and their Constitutional Rights as well as individual rights, (a vehicle is an extention of a person’s home; per the “Castle Doctine Law” in the state of Florida. That Disney clearly has no control over. Maybe several organizations will contact all Disney Workers to boycott for one day gpoing to work and watch how fast D9isney does a turn around. Thirty-five thousand employees don’t come to work and the park shuts down ! Cost into the millions of dollars and bad publicity, unknown but above the cost of a one day shut down. Disney only owns the property, not the employees !
July 10th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Timbo,
Do your research, these so called tens of thousands that die by owning guns…False, also, child deaths aren’t near as high as you read either. See, what you fail to do is research and a child is considered anyone under the age of 20, and majority of those “child deaths are gang related between ages 15 and 19. These tens of thousands of deaths as a result of owning guns, doesn’t exist. RESEARCH DUDE!!!!
July 10th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Timbo, you need to get a clue dude.
Timbo Says:
“10s of thousands die every year as a result of owning a gun…”
And present these “10s of thousands die from guns” facts. LoL!!! You need to start looking at actual facts like the CIA studies or the Brookings Institute studies. Then you’ll get the actual facts of deaths rather than going by what Connie Chung tells you on the evening news. LoL!!!
For goodness sakes more people die every year from choking on the food they are eating or from drowning than do from firearms in any form.
Take the media’s/lib’s blinders and earplugs off and start thinking for YOURSELF.
Chuckle.
July 10th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Disney was one of the first public venues to promote gay rights with their annual “Gay Day” at Disney World each spring. I guess they must be pro-gay and anti-gun. How about an annual “Open Carry” day at Disney World? As I like to tell folks, “No, I don’t object to two men walking down the street holding hands just as long as you don ‘t mind if they do it while each is wearing a .45 on his hip” Libertarianism means freedom for all. Liberalism means freedom only for those who agree with the government.
July 10th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
FYI, this effects employees. If you are a visitor you are permissable by law to have your weapon in your vehicle. They cannot prohibit visitors only employees. I’m in complete agreement with 99% of the commentors in that Disney is way out of line. But honestly fellas, this is right along the lines of the facist manner in which they have always treated their employees, with strict dress codes and many other aspects. First thing to take control of a facist society is to disarm your populace… silly but clearly accurate. Wait till they attempt to increase laws like this to their pet town project Celebration… hopefully not.
Again however, this is for employees not visitors. They do employ 60 thousand people though and their rights need to be upheld as much if not more than visitors as they go there daily.
Dave
July 10th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
A few major points not being mentioned here.
I agree with the Disney boycott but to go even further with the point that Disney has been and continues to extinguish one of American’s most important constitutionally given rights, who are these people and why are they running such an iconic American company? My child loves to go to Disney but I will be seriously reconsidering spending another dime there when people like this are running and setting this company on such an elitist course. This company is supposed to embody America and its citizens along with their Constitutional rights, not help to strip them away.
Sea World has decided to abide by this law and support American citizens and their rights. I will spend my money there.
With the exception of hiring your own armed body guard no person, company or entity can guarantee anyone’s safety 24 x 7 x 365. Our founding fathers knew this and that is why they put it in the Constitution. We have the right to defend our self, our property and our families – period. Most robberies and murders take less than a minute to happen and there is no security in the world than can rush to your rescue in that span of time. Anyone who thinks different is a complete fool.
Second, where is our wonderful government’s responsibility here? These people are the ones who are supposed to be protecting the Constitution and rights of the US citizens contain therein. They are asleep at the wheel, consumed with self serving agendas and corrupt beyond comprehension. Clearly all of the surveys and polls I have participated in concerning the right to bear arms show that an overwhelming majority of citizens want and deserve to have this right so where is that being reflecting by our elected officials. If the will of the people was being truly represented in our government these issues questioning our Constitutional rights would never even see the light of day. So much for that theory right? Ok – I’ll get off my soap box now…
July 10th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
First I’d like to say, I won’t be taking my kids to disney anymore!
Second is the fact that in my oppinion anyone who want to change or amend any one of our constitional rights is a communist or nazzi. The only people who had any right to amend any of our constitional right was our forfathers when they first wrote the constitution of the united states and the bill of rights. The only ammendments that I believe to be legal amendments are the original 10 amendments, which were amended so as to bring other states into the union. So again in my oppinion any other change should be in itself un-constitutional and illegal.
I mean think about it people, Does anyone realise why our country has never had anyone really attach our shores and start a war with us in our own country? because we have more fire arms owned by the private citizens then there are men and women in our armed forces, that means anyone attacking our shores will not only have too fight our military might but they will also have too fight every Tom, Dick, and Harry.
So, in closing I believe all these GUN CONTROL FREAKS are nothing more then comunisit or nazzi pigs. That includes Disney, Wal Mart, Publics and any other company that is against our basics rights. Just like I will not shop at Target or Lowes because they are a French owned corp. and will donate all kinds of money to all kinds of causes including gay rights, But they won’t donate one penny to our American Veterans.
July 10th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Should I ever take leave of my senses and desire to once again subject myself to the crowds of tourists and the overpriced ticket provided by Disney, you may be certain that I will enter that theme park with my trusty Sig strapped to my hip under my shirt.
Disney can post all the signs it wants to, but I won’t be deterred from carrying my weapon in every genre that Florida law allows. I carry into Publix, and Blockbuster and Wal Mart, and Ace Hardware, and anyone who tries to prevent me from legally carrying my licensed handgun can, as they say in merry old England, piss off!.
July 10th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
As the Supreme Court has made its decision, you need only to look at the 30+ years that handguns were banned in D.C., only affecting the law abiding while crime rose to all time highs(murder capital of the U.S.)A criminal by definition does not abide by our laws whether it be 1 or 20,000. So, should we leave ” Big Brother G ” or Corporations to decide how we protect ourselves and our family?? I think not. Our rights and our freedoms are not for sale or for debate as I see it. The time is near when these precious freedoms that we enjoy will be put to the ultimate test, so safeguard them as a jealous parent protects his small ones and be ever vigilant of those that want to deprive us from them…SEMPER FI
July 10th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
I fear that Timbo has partaken of the KoolAid. I am confident that this will be resolved in short order in favor of the indivudual right to protect ones self. God Bless America and would somebody please revoke Disney’s fireworks license.
July 10th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
I don’t understand how some people are against our right to defend ourselves.
I’m going to Universal Studios from now on…
July 10th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
I get the feeling from reading all of this that generally the thought is that any Joe employee can have a loaded gun in their car parked at work. But doesn’t this law (when such product is lawfully possessed & locked inside) only pertain to those with a concealed carry permit?
July 10th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
You know, it amuses me how so many people act as though you have never been able or allowed to carry a firearm in your car, when in fact Florida law has allowed ANYONE to legally carry a loaded gun in your car for years as long as it is in a glove box or center console with a door. In addition, the Castle Doctrine was extended to your vehicle, further affirming the lawful RIGHT for you to protect yourself from those who would wish to do you harm. Outside of the vehicle, you must have a concealed weapons permit to move about still in possession of said firearm, so the point that Disney and other makes about it being dangerous is an absolute laugh.
I have had a CWP since the law was incepted, I have ALWAYS had a loaded gun in my vehicle every place I have ever worked, I have never been asked and no one displays a sign on their car that proclaims “I’m carrying a gun!”
The fact is that in every parking lot of every employer, every grocery store, every shopping mall, and yes, EVERY THEME PARK, there are and always have been gun owners that have guns in there vehicles, always have been and always will be. As some have stated in comments before me, I am not the person you should worry about, it is the lawless criminal that may decide one day he wants your wallet, your car, or what ever and may decide to just take your life to get it….but if you are fortunate enough that someone such as myself is around to stop it, we could potentially save your life. This is not fiction, but fact. But if I have no weapon, my odds and yours are practically “0″ because you are then at the mercy of your assailant, period. I hope that I never have to pull the trigger against another human being, but if they are going to try and take my life, I want to have a say in the final decision, and if I must take them out, so be it, they made the choice.
So in conclusion, this is yet again another example of government writing another law to cover something that was already legal…….the intent was to stop the anti-gun factions from discriminating against those who chose to lawfully defend themselves. 911 is dial a prayer, ask any law enforcement officer, I have many as friends and a former father in-law that was retired from that line of work…..they can not be everywhere at once, and most likely will not be where you are when you become a victim.
I choose to have a chance at life……it is too bad the liberal “sheep” just don’t get it, they have this false sense of security…..one day they may have to thank a gun owner for saving their life during the commission of a forcible felony, wouldn’t that be ironic???
July 10th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
I guess my post was too anti Disney, it has been awaiting moderation for quite a while…..
July 10th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
The powers at Disney think they can do anything , they treat employees badly, underpay, all the while trying to maintain a false scrubbed clean image while they promote deviate life styles. They damage the environment and now they defy state gun laws. I will not ever spend my entertainment dollar ever again with them.
July 10th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
John has it right. If the employees follow Disney’s policy, and are raped/carjacked/mugged or anything while on their way TO or FROM work AT Disney…SUE THE HECK out of Disney for their policy preventing you from having the ability to protect yourself.
July 10th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
I note from the flippant remark at the end of the piece. “Just in case its employees need to pack some heat during all those whale rescue missions.” that the author, and her bosses at Discovery Channel, is poking fun at the entire gun control/second amendment issue. One would expect them to take a serious issue seriously, perhaps if it was the first amendment at issue she, and they, wouldn’t be so flippant.
My only comment is this: Why are people that are trying so hard to put a genii back into its bottle being given so much credibility? It’s ludicrous to the extreme besides being totally irrational. Oh, wait, maybe that’s where the joke comes in…
July 10th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Fla Disabled Vet is right on:
If this were the 1st amendment I don’t think they’d be so flippant about it. The 2nd amendment wasn’t put there as an afterthought, its the SECOND amendment. NOT the 9th or 10th. This amendment is 2nd ONLY to free speech and free press.
July 10th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
1. I’d like to see comparison between a list of actual problems with legal guns in their parking lots, along with a list of actual problems with crime that happens to customers and employees in their “secure” parking lot that are , or are not reported by the company. I don’t believe there is any legitimate reasoning behind this hassle. They are simply swinging their money around for who know what reasons. Why does Disney continue to glorify the use of guns and even more destructive deadly weapons in their movies. Apparently guns are OK as long it’s to make money for the corporation.
2. If they are exempt from this law, effectively leaving their patrons and employees defenseless, any and every crime of any kind resulting in their “secure” parking lots, or to and from the park, should be entirely their responsibility and should be liable to easy law suit by the victims.
3. I’d like to remind all that these big corporations and their organizations do not vote. They can only buy or coerce politicians. From all the polls it is obvious that the public is nearly entirely against them. I’m a legal gun owner and I vote . . . and I’ll work and vote to remove any politician that leans their way.
July 10th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
As previously stated, the 2nd amendment is there to make sure that the rest ot the amendments are protected.
July 10th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Ron H. I would love to know where all of these “Hundreds of Non Partisan” studies are that you speak of. Maybe you got them from Timbo. I have seen numerous statistics to the contrary on here. Could you please furnish us with just one? It seems all of the NRA supporters are not sticking their heads in the sand and as far as “losing a round” (love your pun) this round will not be lost. I am an NRA life member but I also joined the Brady Campaing email list just so I am abreast of the garbage they spewing. I encourage everyone to register on their website so you are one step ahead of combating their lunacy. It might also give them a false sense of support.
A
July 10th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
I would imagine that over the past several decades and right up to this very day, there have been and are literally thousands upon thousands of managers, employees, service workers, delivery persons, customers, etc. that have guns securely encased, locked and out of sight in their vehicles in various parking lots throughout this great state.
It apparently was not a problem at all until the anti-gun people caused their propaganda machine to create a perceived problem using their typical scare tactic approach!
More than likely, virtually all of those with guns in their vehicles were and are law abiding people; some hunters, fishers, sport shooters, police, security guards, licensed concealed carry people, etc. that have no intent to harm, rob or kill anyone with their gun.
Some say an employee or customer might snap and run get his gun and start shooting, well that sounds like it borders on anti-gun generated paranoia. Any criminal intent on committing a crime will ignore laws and bans and do exactly what he wants to do. Law abiding concealed carry permit holders have a clean record and want to keep it that way, they have too much to loose by violating the law.
The likelihood of someone needing a gun for self defense in a parking lot or enroute to or from, I’m sure far outweighs the likelihood of someone snapping!
July 10th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Ron H. I would love to know where all of these “Hundreds of Non Partisan” studies are that you speak of. Maybe you got them from Timbo. I have seen numerous statistics to the contrary on here. Could you please furnish us with just one? It seems all of the NRA supporters are not sticking their heads in the sand and as far as “losing a round” (love your pun) this round will not be lost. I am an NRA life member but I also joined the Brady Campaing email list just so I am abreast of the garbage they spewing. I encourage everyone to register on their website so you are one step ahead of combating their lunacy. It might also give them a false sense of support.
As to the (2 move) gun law in your car, in Florida it just can’t be in plain sight. Think about it. What good does a gun do you if you have to open a glove box and take it out of a bag or the like. Actually it can be carried on your person in a car (Florida Castle Doctrine).
July 10th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Disney thinks they are gods that can influence, manipulate, and control the politics and people of Florida. Florida and Federal laws rule our land and not Mickey Mouse. If they want to rebel against the laws of the land then perhaps they should move to France.
July 10th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Ron H; So you say private property rights trump the Bill of Rights?
I shall certainly be interested to see what the likes of you has to say when Disney starts violating the OTHER amendments in the Bill of Rights. Like free speech, telling their employees whom they MUST vote for, what race, creed or religion(s) you MUST BE to maintain/gain employement. Maybe they will decide to control what media you consume/listen to/read in any of their hotels?
In case you missed it, the Second Amendment IS an INDIVIDUAL RIGHT as upheld by the Sup. Court. Disney is the first major corporation to attempt to continue their elitist anti-American policies, and they will pay for it… both in legal fees, lost customers and ultimately, when the people of Florida DEMAND their lawmakers pass an amendment to the law that slaps Disney back to the reality that while they are a land of fantasy, they can no longer LIVE IN ONE.
July 10th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
When you can get the guns from the bad guys then I will talk about mine,we should be able to defend ourself to and from work at Deisney or wherever we work
July 10th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Oh, and Brady has billboards up that say that “Floridians are allowed to use deadly force to defend themselves and we suggest you vacation someplace else”???
S W E E T!!!!!
That will help turn away criminals at the state border, thanks Sarah. Also, it should help keep elitists who do not believe in the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA out of the state.
July 10th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
It is so soviet Russia that Disney is pulling off. Why do so many anti American people feel the need to keep the guns out of honest Americans hands? It’s not like anyone in their right mind wants to shoot mickey and the gang. More likely they will defend the park if terrorists tried anything. Maybe that’s the problem! The libs at the park are sympathetic to terrorists and not to real Americans?
July 10th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
If you believe that Disney and the other businesses in Florida are correct to defy the law, check the statistics on conceal carry permit holders who have had their permit revoked because of their involvement in a crime involving a gun. You’ll find that the media’s scare tactics have worked on you too.
A 1998 Violence Policy Center study showed that since 1987, more than 206,400 Floridians have applied for new concealed carry licenses. As of July 31, 1995, 200,241 have received them. Fourteen were revoked in 1995. That’s about 1 in 3,500 that were revoked!
http://www.vpc.org/studies/cccrimst.htm
July 10th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
It is amazing how the anti rights people are first to blame the NRA. They do not get it. It is really very simple.
It’s We the People and the last I read the facts are 70 to 80% of us feel it is our right to own guns weather we are rich or poor, black or white, male or female. America is the best place to live on this earth because of all we have and have had. Wheather it was fighting Indians in the 1800’s or gang bangers today, horse theives of a time past or car jackers today. I love Cowboy deplomicy, it built the greatest nation on earth. I’ll bet there are many nations peoples around the world that wish they were able to have the same.
It is our constitutional right, thank god our forfathers were brilliant for those who do not agree i’ll bet living in China or Zimbabwe looks very appealling to you.
July 10th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
If Disney is handling and using enough explosives to create a significant hazard, the property should not be open to the general public.
It will be hard to determine what factors will actually wreck the disney enterprise- gun owner boycott or fuel prices.
July 10th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Help us in cutting down our dependency on foreign oil, stop driving to Disney !!
July 10th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Let’s face it, some people just don’t understand and there is nothing you can do to change it.
I frequently refer to this URL as a reference when people, or corporations, reflect their anti-self-defense stance.
http://www.vcdl.org/new/raging.htm
I won’t be driving a car with a Disney sticker on it. I wouldn’t want some potential carjacker to choose me simply because he thinks I work for Disney and am an easy unarmed target. But I’ll keep my NRA membership card in my wallet. Now, I am thinking twice about sustaining my $2500.00 annual vacation budget that would normally be spent at their parks. Perhaps I’ll spend it in a Busch park instead…
July 10th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Between “Gay Days” at Disney, and Disney Corps decision to disobey the CONSTITUION of the United States. They can shove it.
I’ve lived in this great state since 1986 and one thing is for certain, WE respect our right to defend ourselves.
Ms. Lafsky, doesnt it suck when people actually disagree with your leftist broken record bitching? Im sure you’re not used to that at all. Welcome to the REAL AMERICA. If you dont like it LEAVE!
July 10th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Timbo,
You, my brain-dead little friend are just full of regurgitated numerical vomit.
“10s of thousands die every year as a result of owning a gun…”
Really… where did you get that number from? It’s certainly not factual, you know. You’d be hard pressed to arrive at that number if you included casualties from wars all around the world. You’re looking like an idiot here…
“Any real examination of facts shows that guns are many times more likely to kill their owners, a family member or a friend, then they are likely to be used in self-defense to prevent an armed attack or burglary.”
Really… and just how many guns have ever killed anybody? There haven’t been very many documented AD’s - in fact, I’ve never read of a single incident where a gun killed its owner.
As for self-defense usage - you seem to be the expert. How ’bout telling us all how many crimes get averted each year by lawful, legal gun owners? Huh? I didn’t hear you. Let me help… it’s estimated that some 2.5 million crimes are prevented by gun owners every year. Many think that number is low, as most confrontations end peacefully, without a shot fired, and therefore go unreported.
I submit, as others have suggested, that if a business wants to prevent me from protecting myself, that they become liable for my safety to and from their business. Simple as that. Otherwise, they need to get over their stupid phobias. Gun laws DO NOT pertain to criminals - they only affect law abiding citizens - therefore, no matter what Disney thinks they are accomplishing - they are NOT in any way, shape, or form deterring criminals from bringing firearms into their parking lots, or their parks. Period! They’re deluded if they think otherwise.
You seem to be spoutin’ numbers… so how many crimes are PREVENTED each year by gun owners?
July 10th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Correction to my math above. It’s about 1 in 15,000 (not 3,500).
July 10th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
The failure in Disney’s case is, the wording within the law that states that the “primary business conducted,” is the manufacture of explosives. The state permit, 18 U.S.C. s. 842 requires you to engage in the business of manufacturing, dealing, and importing of explosives on said property.
Disney states they store fireworks on their property and thus the exemption. When all is said and done, Disney will loose.
July 10th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Disney is off limits. It is bad enough to promote “alternative life styles” in children’s movies and show up at the theme park with your 5 yr olds to find it is “gay Day”, but to back door attempt to eliminate the 2nd amendment rights is the last straw. 1. The FLA Chamber is against the law, but many of its members (Or ex-members … guess why) are not.
2. Deaths by guns statistics generally include gang bangers, dope deals, felonies, and other criminal acts. How many are by law abiding citizens, especially Concealed Weapon Pemit holders whom this law applies to. 3.Disney and all employers are shielded from liabilityif an employee injures someone with a gn he retrieved from his car. 4.The FLA Chamber has recently hired a bunch of Brady Group whackos which is driving their position. I may piss off some liberals because they get confused with facts that detract from their opinions. Conservatives believe it when they see it and Liberals see it when they believe it.Go for those NY Times sound Bites guys! Remember Teddy Kennedy’s car has killed more people (and animals) than all of my guns.
I think I will do my part to piss off a LIberal and go buy another gun.
July 10th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
You people scare me.
I believe with all my heart in the right to bear arms, for reasons of protection from criminals and the government (i know same thing) just as our founding fathers intended it. The right to bear arms is a right to protect private property. The fact that any one who supports the 2nd amendment would do so by eliminating private properties rights scares me very much. It is Disneys choice, if you can not be without your gun don’t go. Pro-gun people I thought were all about personal liberty, but evidently they are for State Control.
July 10th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
What’s next for Disney? No cheese in the gates or rather in their parking lots? Who’s going to search those picnickers before they enter Disney’s property, Anyone get it, yet?
July 10th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
911, when every second counts help is only minutes away! Only law abiding citizens will abide by the law, criminals by definition don’t obey any laws. The right to self protection trimuphs all others, if you aren’t alive you can’t excercise any other rights. It’s a shame these liberals never grew up and have to have the gov