LESS VACCINES + MORE ILLEGAL IMAGRATION = A BIG PROBLEM.

The portugese study isn’t being used to show that vaccines cause Autism. It is being used to show that children with Autism have a “high frequency of mitochondrial dysfunction”. Why are you looking for vaccine damage in the study?

“If any illegal acts were committed, they have not been by people using the information that Mr. Kirby put in the public domain.”

As Kev pointed out “If” doesn’t help us much. I haven’t seen anyone charged yet, so it’s pure speculation as to who leaked the document.

“Does his own case study suggest evidence? I don’t think so.”

From the abstract: “These data suggest that further metabolic evaluation is indicated in autistic patients and that defects of oxidative phosphorylation might be prevalent.”

From the Portugese study: “A diversity of associated medical conditions was documented in 20%, with an unexpectedly high rate of mitochondrial respiratory chain disorders.”

Poling’s case study referenced this among others: “Mitochondrial dysfunction in patients with hypotonia, epilepsy, autism, and developmental delay: HEADD syndrome.”

So yes, there are several indications that further investigation is merited. His case study both discusses and references the evidence.

“It stands to reason that if we’re only looking for ‘vaccine induced autism’ in these very very small populations, it can hardly qualify as an epidemic in the way it was described as being.

Small being a relative term. When a small percentage is applied to EVERY child, the number can still be quite large. If that number is large the use of the term epidemic is pretty irrelevant to the safety discussion.

“OK, but once we move past thinking that there might be something and stop using ‘if’ ‘might’ ‘appear to be’ is there anything to allow us to use ‘is’?”

Dr. Offit made a statement of fact to contradict Dr. Poling’s statement. Since it’s not customary to prove a negative (since it can’t really be done), I would think Dr. Offit would provide some evidence to back it up. None was provided. Evidence to the contrary has been provided. No evidence to support his assertion is available. If you think that immunogenicity trials for concommitant medication meet the letter of his argument, then his argument falls away as it doesn’t counter Dr. Poling’s statement.

(and that was still more rational that the antivaxers)

Sorry for the confusing statement–meant to say, “only a fraction of people with mitochondrial disorders have autsim or even autistic features”

Today, the United Mitochondrial Foundation released findings that 1 in 200 children may have mitochondrial disorder.

Which is not accurate at all. The first sentence of the link is:

The United Mitochondrial Disease Foundation (UMDF) today announced landmark research finding that one in every 200 people has a DNA mutation that could potentially cause a mitochondrial disease in them or their offspring.

“could potentially cause” is not the same thing as “may have mitochondrial disorder”.

Also, only a fraction of people with mitochondrial disorder do not have autism or even autistic features.

This is exactly the sort of misimpression I was discussing above.

Maybe I’m wrong and their out there in the public domain–does anybody have access to these court documents? I would like to see them.

When Mr Kirby posted the concession document to his blog, he put them in the public domain.

The Court has noted that the Polings request to make that document, and another report from the DHHS, public is “moot” since (a) Mr. Kirby quoted most of the first one on his blog and (b) reported details of the second in a piece on the Atlanta Journal Constitution.

If any illegal acts were committed, they have not been by people using the information that Mr. Kirby put in the public domain.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/new-research-shows-one-200/story.aspx?guid=%7B2F796147-29A1-481B-9AAE-212134C83DAE%7D&dist=hppr

Today, the United Mitochondrial Foundation released findings that 1 in 200 children may have mitochondrial disorder.

That says it all.

I don’t think my kids care if you call it “autism” or “autism-like” symptoms.

Idiots.

That study discusses a group of children very much unlike Hannah Poling. Only one is noted as having gone through regression, for example.

Even amongst the children like Hannah Poling, those in the study that will be published sometime in the near future, Hannah Poling stands out as the one case were there appears to be vaccine injury. One other child is noted to have a regression within a week of vaccination, and the rest (28) had regressions free and clear of vaccinations.

It seems to be often implied that “mitochondrial disorders” and “autism” is an indication of vaccine injury. It is not.

You obviously have brought out the militias on this post, good job! I have a question about Offit’s decisive “concise blow” though.

Offit says, “Poling claims that I didn’t have access to his daughter’s medical records. My information was based on a verbatim transcript of the DHHS concession”

How did Offit obtain this document or any other document on the case? I cannot find any reference to it except from David Kirby, and that was a leaked (probably illegal) copy.

Offit might have some trouble coming his way if he 1) somehow obtain access to sealed court documents or 2) used an illegal leaked document in the New England Journal.

Maybe I’m wrong and their out there in the public domain–does anybody have access to these court documents? I would like to see them.

It’s not that I think the world is only as big as the UK, of course I never made such a claim - I’m saying stick to the claim you were making and don’t run away from defending it by changing its substance. You were the one who quoted the UK death rates. You said that there were 2 measles deaths in the UK, I pointed out that both of those were special cases, at which point you were suddenly discussing measles deaths in the rest of the world. If every single person in Angola (for example), is imune to measles or is dying of it, how does that affect the two people in the UK dying of measles - that is what I am asking.

Why the jump from discussing UK measles deaths to measles deaths in the world? I suspect you wanted to say that measles deaths are not just occurring in the third world, but are occurring right here, but when it turns out that these people were taking azathioprine, you don’t want to acknowledge that these cases may have had nothing to do with surging measles deaths, but were cases of people who are at risk from every infectious agent.