Comments on: This Week’s God-Science Face-Off: Rick Warren v. Sam Harris

By: Jason

Jason — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 05:26:20 +0000

Immagine there are 27 flavors of Snow Cones, YOU HAVE NEVER HAD A SNOW CONE, SEEN ONE, HEARD OF ONE, NOTHING………….
and I told you to eat a specific one that I had been eating now for many years. It was the best thing you have ever tasted!
What if I told you that this spacific snow cone flavor that we can call “Superman” is the best tasting snow cone that is
avaliable? What if I told you that by eating this snow cone it will make your life better, it will make you feel better about
yourself, and it will also give you etearnal life? You would probably think im crazy right? Remeber…… YOU have never had
a snow cone before………………………………………………………………………………………………
you have never even heard of them. So now Im trying to get you to try this “Superman” its the best thing! “Superman” is the bomb
And after tasting “Superman” your taste buds were exploding with flavor. You were experiecing
the tastiest treat your lips have ever tasted. This was better than steak to you, better than ice cream, chocolate,or even cake.
Immagine now that I ask you………IS THAT YOUR FAVORITE SNOW CONE?

Wo wo wo Hold on one second…..stop for a second and think about that last question….Is that your favorite snow cone?
Remember, “Superman” was the first snow cone you have ever tasted, hell you had never even heard of snow cones before I told you
about “Superman”. Really think about it………….there are still 26 other snow cones to try RIGHT? Heres where things get
interesting….what if I told you that the other 26 snow cones will equal a firy pit of hell for you???????????? What if i said
that they are poisoned and I had personally witnessed thousands of people try any of the other 26 flavors and there lives were
ruined almost immediately. I am sure by this point you can see where Im going with this…..you would most likley think I had
fell off the deep end…..Immagine me saying theese things to you standing there by myself, and this was the first time you had
ever heard such outlandish things being said to you.

How is this different than any Religion, Any person has grown up in? I will tell you how………Immagine now that there are
Millions of people standing behind me……..Immagine that all of those people are telling you the same things I am….Immagine
that we all are telling you those same outlandish, unbelievable, and down right rediculous stories about the other 26 snow cones.

You see, with Millions of people standing behind me………all testifying the same thing……I know what you would do….
you would do the same damm thing so many other people accross this world have done including myself and almost everyone I know…
….you would continue to eat “Superman”. You would have it as often as you could….hell its suppost to give you etarnal life.
You would eat it as often as you could, while at the same time avoiding the other 26 snow cones like they were the black plague.

If that is not Religion? I don’t know what is.

Friends, please try and understand what I am saying to you. I write today because I love people, I do not love there actions
and I feel things must change. Information that is avaliable, and being saught after, is the only thing that can save us….
I can provide first hand information that is from my heart, but I cannot provide the will for others to learn it. However, knowing
the information is there, avaliable to make a difference in someones life, the way that it has made a difference in mine, is
the liest I can do…….one human to another.

By: James Dean

James Dean — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:51:53 +0000

Dear Jim,

It’s not possible to be in control of everything and yet not in control of death at the same time. You say your god’s ultimate plan is to defeat sin? His book says that sin came from knowledge. Does this mean that he must “defeat” knowledge first? I can’t speak for anyone else, but if being “saved” by someone else’s invisible friend means being an idiot, I think I will pass.

As far as the remark in the article about Sam Harris, it’s true that being paternal is not the best persuasive method. I would point out that it’s probably very difficult for him not to behave that way. Imagine trying to convince a 40 year old man that there is no such thing as the tooth fairy. Imagine devoting your life to eradicating the belief in the tooth fairy among adults. Wouldn’t you feel like you were talking to children; wouldn’t you get “paternal”? I would.

By: Jim

Jim — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:52:24 +0000

Pierre,
God doesn’t kill people. Yes, He is in control of all things and knows all things, but that doesn’t mean it was his will that anyone dies. Death is a consequence of sin. Because we have a sinful nature and have sinned, we suffer the consequences. A child certainly did not bring on his/her own death by sinning. Rather sin has caused the world to deteriorate in a more general sense and that child’s death is an unfortunate consequence. Even the earth shows these symptoms. Sin is so destructive that its consequences affect everyone, no matter how good you are. God’s ultimate plan is to defeat sin, but the reason He doesn’t just defeat it right now is because He must leave us a choice to either choose His solution or not. Once we have decided to choose Him, then we are on His side when sin is defeated by choice. We aren’t God’s puppets, so that is why we must be given the free will to choose Him or not, first, before He can eliminate sin. You could say none of us deserve to live because we all sin and cannot be in relationship with a perfect being without tainting that being. However, God has met his terms of justice with them so that we can be forgiven and be seen in His eyes as clean, and will be made perfect by Him at the time He knows everyone has made their choice.

By: Pierre JC

Pierre JC — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:13:49 +0000

desertrose:
According to your own beliefs, God made sure that your child died, and in so doing, gave that child exactly what it deserved.
I’m an atheist. I don’t think your child deserved to die.
Which of us is more enlightened?

By: Z

Thu, 02 Oct 2008 14:56:49 +0000

Wow, it never fails to amaze me when I see people of faith defending their ability to trust something that does not exist. There is no proof of the existence of a god, any god, let alone one special one. If there were proof there would be precious few atheist, and probably zero debate about it. The fact that there are both atheists and debates about the existence of any god is evidence enough that sane individuals should doubt the existence of a god.

We were not born in sin. Without the christian bible, who would know of such? God is not visiting regularly to remind us, we are given only the word of men that a god exists, only the word of men as to what this god wants us to do. More often than not, that word is to the benefit of those speaking the words than to mankind.

I’m tired, TIRED, of christians talking about prayer, saying that it is their god’s will to answer or not, yet they still pray to have things go their way knowing that their god will do as he pleases, with or without their prayer. So who is prayer for? Must be for those that desire divine intervention on their behalf. They claim their god is all knowing, but refuse to understand that he knows what they need by praying for his intervention on their behalf. Either he knows all or he doesn’t! Why does he need reminding? That doesn’t sound like an all knowing entity to me.

desertrose asks if I think god didn’t live up to my expectations? His/her god didn’t live up to anyone’s expectations. It’s kind of cute that his/her religion also includes an all encompassing get out clause… if you don’t believe like we do, it must be satan running your life. It can’t possibly be that I just don’t believe in the same fairy tales? There is no room for disbelief or non-belief. Everyone must believe as s/he does or they go to hell. What kind of god would do that? How vain is that? Either you dance and worship the word of men written about me, or I condemn you to everlasting torture? Wow, that’s some loving god right there. Live your life in constant guilt and shame or I will condemn you to eternity feeling even worse. Screw that! If there is a loving compassionate god, s/he would want me to live, celebrate, enjoy this one life given to me. I condemn all gods who would have me do otherwise.

By: desertrose

desertrose — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 08:16:36 +0000

Sad to see there are some here who base their “god” on their own opinion of what he should do….according to their will not “His”. If you are in the position of believing God didnt live up to your standard…then maybe you need to review whether you actually had a relationship with Him..rather than just living a religious life. I personally would be wary of anyone who preaches the “it didnt happen cos you didnt have enough faith Kenneth Copeland crap”…but I also know that if things dont go my way…it doesnt lesson the existance or perfection of God - or His reality and provision though the sacrifice of His Son for my sin.

Where was God when my own child died…??? In exactly the same place as He was when His Son was being tortured and murdered for me and you. God is God, Jesus is our only Hope and Saviour, sin is sin - and we will never understand all things..until we are with Him - and we will never see Him - unless our sin is dealt with by the precious blood of Jesus.

Amazing isnt it…it still goes on….satan still deceives people into creating their own image of god….ummmm HE made the rules folks….we arent the ones who dictate the terms..His terms or ours…Heaven or Hell…your choice

By: Tom Rees

Tom Rees — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 08:00:15 +0000

Ian, these aren’t scientific debates, but philosophical ones. The philosophy of science is, I think, a valid topic for a science magazine, and nothing highlights it better than contrasting the scientific and religious approaches.

Sure there are religious viewpoints out there that accomodate science (Ba’Hai is another example). But a debate between two people who largely agree is less interesting, I think. Sam Harris is not exactly your typical atheist either. But I agree, it would be interesting to explore the viewpoints of people who manage to be both religious and pro-science. We would see that their religion is radically different from the religion of the evangelists.

By: Ian

Ian — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 02:38:54 +0000

I’m a little frustrated by the recent batch of god vs atheism posts. For a few reasons.

1. I’m pretty sure that discover is a science magazine. These debates seem primarily based on opinion for both parties involved.

2. These debates generally showcase conservative and close-minded church leaders and imply that they represent all religious people.

I’m not saying that religions shouldn’t be questioned, but the recent posts seem quite biased. If you’re going to continue this trend of theological charged posts, please include other, more rational viewpoints.

Here’s a good example from HH Dalai Lama, “If science proves some belief of Buddhism wrong, then Buddhism will have to change. In my view, science and Buddhism share a search for the truth and for understanding reality.” http://www.dalailama.com/news.5.htm

By: Neecie

Neecie — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 01:19:30 +0000

I must say I agree with Chucko. As a recovering christian in the pentecostal movement, I am so glad that I can now rationally look at what is true and false. My first thoughts that “God” is not a god at all came when one of our parishioners was killed in a car accident while pulling into the church parking lot. It was preached in our Sunday school class that the only reason she died was because we didn’t pray hard enough. We were told we should pray until she was revived, and because we didn’t pray hard enough, or earnestly enough, she died. In other words, her blood was on our hands. Well, she was dead. Hit by an 18 wheeler, there was nothing I, the doctors, or this so called “God” in the sky could do about it. It only took me about 8 more years of similar experiences to realize the insanity of this. Glad I finally “saw the light”.

Neecie

By: chuko

chuko — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 21:45:27 +0000

Normally, I’m a patient, gentle-hearted atheist. However, some days, after reading the news of the atrocities of some theocratic regime and the efforts of those who want to impose similar religious beliefs on others in the States, an annoying little person will come up and badger me about the glory of their little religion, the truth of creationism, the value of faith over reason, or some other anti-Rationalist drivel. Usually I can just smile and politely state the rationalist position because I know this person is deluded rather than uninformed, but sometimes, yeah, I’m angry that such people are busy tearing down the civilization that rational people are creating.