Is Bobby Kennedy Really the "Anti-Science" Choice for EPA Head?
Now that the worldwide euphoria over Obama’s victory is abating, it’s time to look at some dismal facts: The air is still thick with pollution, the globe is still warming, and the science community is in a frenzy over who the president-elect will choose to head up the battered, broken EPA.
The short and distinguished list of candidates includes include former Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection head Kathleen McGinty; California Air Resources Board chairwoman Mary Nichols; Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection head Ian Bowles; Kansas governor Kathleen Sibelius; New Jersey environmental commissioner Lisa Jackson; and, finally, environmental lawyer, activist, and prolific blogger Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
While all are talented and have the potential to breathe life into the foundering agency, the one receiving the biggest pounding is Kennedy. Across the Internet, science writers have lambasted the longtime environmentalist for his alleged “anti-science” views—in particular, his public criticism of vaccines.
There’s no question that Kennedy has been vocal in his campaign against the CDC, particularly regarding its stance on Thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative. In 2005, he published a controversial piece in Salon charging that the government had concealed data showing that Thimerosal-containing vaccines were harmful. Critics excoriated the article, and Kennedy has since been labeled a traitor to science and affixed with the anti-vaxer label.
Still, the reality isn’t quite so simple. While Kennedy has indeed pointed accusatory fingers at certain vaccine practices—and has fallen victim to the “hand-picked studies” effect on at least one occasion—the charges that he’s a full-on anti-vaxer are incorrect and arguably irrelevant.
The distinction is this: Kennedy’s focus has been on making vaccines “safe” (i.e. Thimerosal-free), not eliminating them. This position is in contrast to that of many anti-vaxers, who dangerously assert that the MMR vaccine causes autism and other health problems, despite the lack of valid scientific evidence for their theory. While he charges the CDC with making poor choices, he has repeatedly stated that he remains pro-vaccine.
On the environmental side (the one that’s most germane to his ability to run the EPA), Kennedy has a 25-year career that includes some impressive achievements, including founding the Waterkeeper Alliance, winning nearly $200 million in damages against DuPont for waste-dumping, and cleaning up the Hudson River. His resume also includes advances in cleantech, alternative energy, and emissions reductions.
Is he the right man for the job? Perhaps not. The jury is still out—and may never reach a consensus—on whether he’s been right about a single Thimerosal claim, and the fact remains that Kennedy and his campaign against Thimerosal have been used as ammunition in the larger, pointless fight against vaccines—a fact he’s no doubt aware of. Still, when we’re debating an issue as crucial as this one, it’s worth scrutinizing the details before jumping on any bandwagons.
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I think the important thing to realize here is that in a relatively simple scientific question — is Thimerosal linked to autism — RFK Jr. has shown gross incompetence in understanding the evidence. Worse, he has shown a resolute inability to be swayed by overwhelming evidence against him.
When posed that way, I think there is no question that he is unqualified to head a scientific agency. He sounds more like any number of Bush appointees who have led through ideology and not science, and we don’t need any more of that.
I completely disagree with your assertion on the thimerosal Phil. Anyone who has been involved with the thimerosal debate knows that its not a simple scientific question. There is evidence on both sides of the issue. Bench science (Burbacher, Hornig, James, etc) on the side of the pro-thimerosal crowd and epidemiology on the side of the anti-thimerosal community. You are either uninformed or intentionally discounting the disparity in the evidence. This question will go away only when a study is performed by a neutral party that compares vaccinated kids against unvaccinated kids and the rates of occurence. Until then there will always be doubt.
That said I am not sure if RFK jr is the right choice either. He does seem a bit emotional to be an unbiased head of such an important scientific agency.
Thimerosal was taken out of vaccines ages ago. The rate of increase of autism diagnosed did not change, not even a blip, even after many years. That’s pretty conclusive.
Phil, go here to see the 10 licensed vaccines sold in the U.S. that contain the full amount of thimerosal (50,000 parts per billion ethylmercury in the multi-dose vials). http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.htm . Now knock off the B.S.
What I also find funny is one day they claim that autism rates have not increased at all and they have only gone up because of better diagnosis/broadening criteria/diagnostic substitution. Then the next day they say thimerosal is out of vaccines but rates of autism continue to skyrocket. So what’s the truth here? They can’t have it both ways.
Kennedy is wrong, vaccines do not cause autism. Autism is simply a term from the psychiatric DSM-IV manual. It’s nothing but a smokescreen. It provides an alibi for the drug companies who added mercury to vaccines at levels 250 times higher than hazardous waste levels (based on toxicity characteristics). It provides an alibi for the CDC, FDA, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the other drug company cronies who are responsible for the safety of our children. It provides an alibi for the people who administered this poison. It provides an alibi for health insurance companies so they don’t have to pay for treatment for these sick kids. It provides an alibi for psychiatrists so they can force powerfull anti-psychotic drugs on these kids who are already terribly confused.
There will never be an identifiable cause for autism. There are though 12 published papers which identify the underlying medical condition of autism as neuroinflammatory disease. My favorite is “Neuroglial activation and Neuroinflammation in the Brain of Patients with Autism”. This was published by John Hopkins University. Now, do you want to debate whether mercury, a known neurotoxin, added to childhood vaccines at levels 250 times higher than what the EPA identifies as hazardous waste, causes degenerative, neuroinflammatory disease? Do you want to debate whether brain damaged kids behave in a way so that some psychiatrist can label them as somewhere on the “spectrum”?
The only thing RFK Jr. is wrong about is the use of the term autism.
Again Phil not quite as clear an issue as you are making it out to be in your post. Thimerosal remains in vaccines today as Maggy has stated previously. A few other points to consider:
– Thimerosal was removed from many vaccines a few years ago under a general recommendation out of the utmost caution. But there is no clear date for when it stopped going into the arms of kids. First of all not all manufacturers stopped producing thimerosal containing vaccines (TCV) on the same date or even by the recommended date. Also as you know thimerosal is an effective preservative and allows the multi-dose vials to sit around in the pediatrician office for quite some time. So the date for when the majority of the thimerosal was removed is pretty unclear.
- Flu shots were mandated for pregnant women and children right around the same time that the thimerosal was being removed from the other vaccines. The vast majority of the flu shots contain thimerosal.
- Also some recent random consumer organization checks of vaccines have revealed that thimerosal is still contained well above the stated amounts in many vaccines that have supposedly removed thimerosal. For these vaccines thimerosal is still used in the manufacturing process but is supposed to be removed toward the end of the process. Doesn’t seem to be happening as effectively as planned.
I don’t like the MMR vaccine because I believe it contributed to my kids autism. However, that does not make me “anti vaccine” or “anti science. I am insulted that you would say that. Those of us against the MMR vaccine want the vaccine split into separate shots. We want safer vaccines, not getting rid of them. Second, 95% of kids are immune from the first dose of this vaccine. That means 95% don’t need the booster. I would like kids to be given a blood test to see if they need this booster, then only be given the measle, mumps or rubella shots if the child is not immune for any or all of these vaccines. Please don’t insult me or Robert Kennedy and say something that is not true. We ALL want safe vaccines that still protect us from diseases including disorders like Autism.
The jury is NOT out on whether vaccines cause autism. They do not, and I doubt there’s any proposition in science that’s been more exhaustively demonstrated. The fact that angry parents want this not to be true doesn’t make it untrue.
No vaccine that a child would normally get, except possibly for certain influenza vaccines, has more than a trace level of thimerosal in it. The vaccines that do have them are only for adults or certain exotic travel destinations. If anybody needs to knock off the B.S., it’s Maggy.
(Psst…you don’t make yourself out to be a scientific sophisticate when you refer to “John Hopkins.”)
Ed Bowden: The last thimerosal-containing childhood-series vaccines expired in 2003. Nice try. Also, the organization I am aware of that tried to find excess mercury? Didn’t find any. Maybe you know of a different one.
Cindy, you may be the only parent on Earth who claims not to be anti-vaccine and actually isn’t. Just because I’ve never found one who didn’t show his or her stripes on pressing doesn’t mean there isn’t one somewhere in the world. It could be you!
The first issue is whether Kennedy should head the EPA. He is the right choice in my opinion. Obama couldn’t find a better man. The second issue is: Should Thimerosal be in vaccines? My answer is: No. Could anybody please give me a reason why it is in vaccines (and it is!) other than for economic reasons? I am also not against vaccination. Mercury is poisonous, and its toxicity is insidious. Mercury is not like a smidgen of cyanide that kills you the next day. It’s more like a slow death even at high doses. To know that you have to read case reports of how mercury kills. Small doses of mercury don’t necessarily show overt toxicity. But to know that you have to know somebody who was poisoned by mercury. I know such a person, and it was not fun to live with him while he was alive. He died demented. Somebody, please, tell me why this debate even exists, especially among scientists!
My primary concern about vaccines used to be the extreme neurotoxicity of mercury in any form, even at nanomolar levels. Then came reports of children’s biopsies showing vaccine-strain measles in lesions lining the gastrointestinal tract. Their parents had noted sickness and mental regression shortly following administration of the MMR vaccine.
Look at all the vaccine injury reports to VAERS, the NVICP, the CDC’s VSD, the Federal Omnibus Autism Proceedings. Read the expert testimony and ask — what happens to all these vaccine injury victims?
The sad truth is that children injured by vaccines are left to twist slowly in the wind.
The CDC offers no medical treatments, no research into vaccine injury prevention. No doctors come to your home and examine your child. Instead you’re told that regression and illness after shots is a coincidence.
The parents see their children hurting, so they start reading for hours a day. They become educated about immunology, biochemistry, physiology, nutrition. They find some progressive physicians and try antivirals, nutritional supplements, anti-inflammatories, chelation — and they watch their children get better. Again they’re told by mainstream medicine, i.e. vaccine sellers, that this is merely coincidence.
The more that parents read, they learn that the CDC’s highly vaunted epidemiology is tainted by skewed statistics ordered by people who’ve left an incriminating trail of FOIA documents (www dot PutChildrenFirst dot org). They see the financial intertwining of pharmaceuticals and physicians’ trade organizations, such as the American Academy of Pediatrics.
The problem is not that autism is a mystery — the problem is that most people don’t like the answer. A product intended to improve health is having the opposite effect in many children.
Why won’t the CDC listen to this reasonable statement, and learn why vaccine injury occurs so it can be prevented?
The biopsies that were supposed to have demonstrated measles virus in the intestines of autistic children have been exposed as laboratory error.
Many, if not most, VAERS reports are submitted by plaintiffs’ lawyers. Sound like a trustworthy database?
Children with autism learn and develop on their own trajectory. It’s troubling when parents attribute this solely to their own heroic efforts.
No one has ever pointed to a single decision or recommendation that was tainted by conflict of interest. This is a bogeyman, but the mercury moms trot it out on every occasion, because it’s all they have.
Correctly interpreted statistics do not favor the mercury moms’ argument. Unfortunately they don’t care about science, no matter how well they’ve learned to spout sciencey-sounding jargon.
On my computer is a photo of a vaccine label reading:
Diphtheria & Tetanus Toxoids
Lot UO746AC
EXP 19 FEB 04
“Correctly interpreted statistics” are irrelevant to a child with clinically demonstrated neuroinflammatory damage, his parents, his physician, his teachers, etc.
So if children with vitamin or mineral deficiencies improve mentally and physically after vitamin or mineral supplementation, that improvement happened on the child’s “own trajectory”?
One should take the comments of isles with a grain of truth.
DT = not part of the childhood schedule
Per the IOM, biological findings are only relevant once an epidemiological relationship has been established. Which has not occurred with vaccines and autism.
Vitamin and mineral supplementation may or may not have any impact; the way to determine is to do an epidemiologic study comparing children who received it to children who did not. The evidence for benefit from supplementation in autism is scanty at best.
Trajectory is a strange word for autism. But be it as it may, isles apparently has a strong viewpoint. It is always interesting to see a lack of interest in cure when an illness has lived with prejudice for so long. People with stomach ulcers had to wait for an Autralian researcher to find a cure for that condition. Mindset is a hard thing to change. In general toxicity is not something physicians study. Maybe that is why it has been ignored for so long. Let’s have an open mind. It might open your eyes.
To believe, as Kennedy does, that there is a link between vaccines and autism is either to be ignorant of the science or in denial of the science. period. This makes Kennedy, who is also a conspiracy theorist, a poor choice for a science based public office. The epidemiological data on vaccines, done by a wide variety of governments and institutions, conclusively demonstrate that children that have received no vaccines do not have higher or lower autism occurrence that vaccinated children. The effect of Kennedy being head of the EPA would likely lead to more ignorant Cindys in the world who maintain the delusion that the MMR vaccine (which never contained Thimerosal) lead to their child’s Autism.
isles is missing the point. Does isles know that Vitamin B1 deficiency has killed hundreds of thousands of people until it was discovered? The illness is called Beriberi. Vitamin B12 deficiency has killed people who have Pernicious Anemia, i.e. a deficiency of intrinsic factor. All vitamins are necessary. Vitamin A deficiency causes blindness. I can go on and on. All vitamins are necessary for life. That’s why they are called vitamins. The reason why vitamins, especially Vitamin D, might help to prevent autism is because Vitamin D is needed for Glutathione production. Glutathione is needed for mercury detoxification. There are other connections for other vitamins when it comes to autism. But this is all I have time for.
Epidemiological studies, in this case all done by those accused of the crime, are nothing but a diversion from the search for the truth.
As far as the MMR vaccine is concerned, I would recommend
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy
“The scientific consensus is that no credible scientific evidence links the vaccine to autism”
There are no epidemiological studies showing a link between vaccines and autism and to dismiss all the varied and far reaching institutions who have studied this possibility ad naseum as “those accused of the crime” is absurd in the extreme and is to dismiss reality. I suppose the Archives of General Psychiatry must in some mysterious and nefarious way are profiteers of vaccines too?
“I suppose the Archives of General Psychiatry must in some mysterious and nefarious way are profiteers of vaccines too”.
Autism is simply a term from the psychiatric DSM-IV manual. It’s nothing but a smokescreen. It provides an alibi for the drug companies who added mercury to vaccines at levels 250 times higher than hazardous waste levels (based on toxicity characteristics). It provides an alibi for the CDC, FDA, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the other drug company cronies who are responsible for the safety of our children. It provides an alibi for the people who administered this poison. It provides an alibi for health insurance companies so they don’t have to pay for treatment for these sick kids. It provides an alibi for psychiatrists so they can force powerfull anti-psychotic drugs on these kids who are already terribly confused.
There will never be an identifiable cause for autism. There are though 12 published papers which identify the underlying medical condition of autism as neuroinflammatory disease. My favorite is “Neuroglial activation and Neuroinflammation in the Brain of Patients with Autism”. Now, do you want to debate whether mercury, a known neurotoxin, added to childhood vaccines at levels 250 times higher than what the EPA identifies as hazardous waste, causes degenerative, neuroinflammatory disease? Do you want to debate whether brain damaged kids behave in a way so that some psychiatrist can label them as somewhere on the “spectrum”?
JJW, yes the psychiatrist’s are the ones holding our children hostage. Why? It’s quite obvious.
Here is another great resource published by the National Academy of Sciences:
http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=10997#description
“The committee reviewed the extant published and unpublished epidemiological studies regarding causality and studies of potential biologic mechanisms by which these immunizations might cause autism. Immunization Safety Review: Vaccines and Autism finds that the body of epidemiological evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism.”
But I already know what Maggy will have to say, the National Academy of Sciences is one of “them” the vast evil conspiracy of big pharama, the evil CDC, FDA, and the American Academy of Pediatrics, etc. all teaming up, constantly plotting on how to poison us with toxins.
Seriously folks, we cannot have delusional antiscience paranoid conspiracy theorists like Kennedy heading up our EPA, we can and must do better. It’s not so much that these individuals like Maggy or Kennedy reject the findings of CDC, the National Academy of Sciences, etc. They are akin to creationists and simply reject science in toto. Any organization, any study, any data regardless of the institution that show the safety and efficacy of vaccines are summarily rejected by these antivax ideologues.
Again JWW, I know vaccines do not cause autism. Autism is simply a term from the psychiatric DSM-IV manual. It’s nothing but a smokescreen. We do not need any more epidemiological studies on the link between vaccines and autism. I agree. We need more studies by honest people on what mercury does to the brain of newborns and infants. I think people who deny that mercury is a neurotoxin are much more in-line with creationism than the people who acknowledge the 30,000+ published papers on the neurotoxic affects of short-chain alkylmercury compounds.
Here’s some information on the authors of the last thimerosal study, Weight of Evidence Against Thimerosal Causing Neuropsychological Deficits” which was published in the New England Journal of Medicine. Is this what you mean by independent studies JWW?
* Dr. Thompson – the lead investigator – is a former employee of Merck.
* Dr. Marcy has received consulting fees from Merck, Sanofi Pasteur, GlaxoSmithKline, and MedImmune.
* Dr. Jackson received grant money from Wyeth, Sanofi Pasteur, GlaxoSmithKline, and Novartis. He received lecture fees from Sanofi Pasteur and consulting fees from Wyeth and Abbott. Currently, he is a consultant to the FDA Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee.
* Dr. Lieu is a consultant to the CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices.
* Dr. Black receives consulting fees from MedImmune, GlaxoSmithKline, Novartis, and Merck, and grant support from MedImmune, GlaxoSmithKline, Aventis, Merck, and Novartis.
* Dr. Davis receives consulting fees from Merck and grant support from Merck and GlaxoSmithKline.
The article then states, “No other potential conflict of interest relevant to this article was reported.” One must wonder if it might have been easier to identify the authors that didn’t have a conflict of interest?
Isle – can you backup your assertion that all TCV’s expired in 2003?
trolls, trolls, trolls.
/sigh
Thankfully, we can all breath a collective sigh of relief that Obama chose Lisa Jackson as head of the EPA instead of an antiscience conspiracy theorist kook.
Isles
biological findings are only relevant once an epidemiological relationship has been established.
Who do you have in mind for the epidemiology Sir Richard Doll perhaps?
130 000 000 PPT thimerosal for a one day baby and all the aggro today about 20 PPT mercury in our canned food in 2009.
Difference is its dumb kid that gets the 130 000 000 PPT shot and a thinking adult that decides he will forgo 20 PPT mercury.
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