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	<title>Comments on: Fringe: The Wasp, The Bat, The Gila Monster, And The Tiger</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/</link>
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		<title>By: alveolate</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1956</link>
		<dc:creator>alveolate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jul 2011 02:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1956</guid>
		<description>lol just noticed the last part when Walter is doing an ultrasound on Charlie. the geezer was practically massaging his belly with the device! for all the &quot;research&quot;, they couldn&#039;t get the ultrasound technique right. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol just noticed the last part when Walter is doing an ultrasound on Charlie. the geezer was practically massaging his belly with the device! for all the &#8220;research&#8221;, they couldn&#8217;t get the ultrasound technique right. </p>
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		<title>By: Verna Tramp</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1955</link>
		<dc:creator>Verna Tramp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2011 01:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1955</guid>
		<description>I and my buddies have already been looking at the great information located on your web site then the sudden came up with an awful suspicion I never thanked the website owner for those tips. My young men ended up so happy to study them and have undoubtedly been making the most of those things. Thank you for genuinely quite kind and also for selecting these kinds of extraordinary issues most people are really desirous to learn about. My personal honest apologies for not saying thanks to you earlier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I and my buddies have already been looking at the great information located on your web site then the sudden came up with an awful suspicion I never thanked the website owner for those tips. My young men ended up so happy to study them and have undoubtedly been making the most of those things. Thank you for genuinely quite kind and also for selecting these kinds of extraordinary issues most people are really desirous to learn about. My personal honest apologies for not saying thanks to you earlier.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr.Mikenstien</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1954</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr.Mikenstien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2011 21:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1954</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;&gt;@ Sam

Well... the fact that these animals have very diferent genetic make-up is true, but what makes this episodes claim so almost-plausible... is that the degree of variation in ALL genetic code is now known to be much smaller than we had prev thought. Take for example what Peter said in the Pilot about cows and people being only so far apart genetically... Since the degree of diference between our genomes, is less than previously thought, new technologies like that discussed in this episode, have and are being developed to CLOSE THE GAP, and make members from diferent CLASSES of animal, let alone diferent species or families of animal, able to cross genetically and still produce living/stable offspring. My last comment mentioned a Potato strain now on the market that is actually part flounder? It was crossed with a flounder so that the potatos grew fats/proteins that otherwise would only be seen in fish.

 Thats NOT fiction, and the resulting crossbred strain of potato was not only able to survive, but performed better than its parent-potatos when tested with cold-stress. We&#039;ve crossed cats from many diferent families now, in the name of preserving or bringing back diferent endangered or extinct species of wild-cats. The lines that segregate the diversity of species, are in fact proving easier and easier to smudge or blur, as time goes by and understanding increases.

Im pretty certain we humans were able to successfully create a Hum-anzee as far back as the 20s (Robert Yerkes&#039; Urban Legend on Wiki), if not sooner. This was a cross of human and chimpanzee genomes - two of the closest in nature genetically speaking. Whether actual experiments like this have been successful remains historically unconfirmed... Other examples like the russian Ape-man experiments, seem to pop up now and then but again, dont seem to be taken seriously by scientific communities.

None the less, its not really considered a valid view anymore academically to say that animals or organisms from different species CAN&#039;T be crossed and produce a viable lifeform capable of growth/life/etc... Consider how many goats, cows or other farmyard animals are being considered today as possible candidates for human/animal hybridization in the name of making(engineering) animals that internally/automatically produce (desired)needed human-specific proteins/antibodies/etc, the pharma industry then intends to collect and market as medicines or treatments. Suffer from a disease-related protein deficiency? Now you can just drink goats-milk laced with human-brand proteins you body will recognize and use in place of the one&#039;s you are lacking.

Instead of it being likely that genetic variation means there is NO WAY some species could ever be &#039;blended&#039;, even in a lab : it&#039;s much more likely that we simply havent figured out the SECRET to that particular recipe/hybrid/cross before now. This fact does nothing however for the unfortunate truth that most crosses/hybrids usually end up sterile, and thus are incapable of bringing forth offspring of thier own, i.e. further generations. If they HAD this ability, much could probably be learned by studying that kind of unique heredity, perhaps? : )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;@ Sam</p>
<p>Well&#8230; the fact that these animals have very diferent genetic make-up is true, but what makes this episodes claim so almost-plausible&#8230; is that the degree of variation in ALL genetic code is now known to be much smaller than we had prev thought. Take for example what Peter said in the Pilot about cows and people being only so far apart genetically&#8230; Since the degree of diference between our genomes, is less than previously thought, new technologies like that discussed in this episode, have and are being developed to CLOSE THE GAP, and make members from diferent CLASSES of animal, let alone diferent species or families of animal, able to cross genetically and still produce living/stable offspring. My last comment mentioned a Potato strain now on the market that is actually part flounder? It was crossed with a flounder so that the potatos grew fats/proteins that otherwise would only be seen in fish.</p>
<p> Thats NOT fiction, and the resulting crossbred strain of potato was not only able to survive, but performed better than its parent-potatos when tested with cold-stress. We&#8217;ve crossed cats from many diferent families now, in the name of preserving or bringing back diferent endangered or extinct species of wild-cats. The lines that segregate the diversity of species, are in fact proving easier and easier to smudge or blur, as time goes by and understanding increases.</p>
<p>Im pretty certain we humans were able to successfully create a Hum-anzee as far back as the 20s (Robert Yerkes&#8217; Urban Legend on Wiki), if not sooner. This was a cross of human and chimpanzee genomes &#8211; two of the closest in nature genetically speaking. Whether actual experiments like this have been successful remains historically unconfirmed&#8230; Other examples like the russian Ape-man experiments, seem to pop up now and then but again, dont seem to be taken seriously by scientific communities.</p>
<p>None the less, its not really considered a valid view anymore academically to say that animals or organisms from different species CAN&#8217;T be crossed and produce a viable lifeform capable of growth/life/etc&#8230; Consider how many goats, cows or other farmyard animals are being considered today as possible candidates for human/animal hybridization in the name of making(engineering) animals that internally/automatically produce (desired)needed human-specific proteins/antibodies/etc, the pharma industry then intends to collect and market as medicines or treatments. Suffer from a disease-related protein deficiency? Now you can just drink goats-milk laced with human-brand proteins you body will recognize and use in place of the one&#8217;s you are lacking.</p>
<p>Instead of it being likely that genetic variation means there is NO WAY some species could ever be &#8216;blended&#8217;, even in a lab : it&#8217;s much more likely that we simply havent figured out the SECRET to that particular recipe/hybrid/cross before now. This fact does nothing however for the unfortunate truth that most crosses/hybrids usually end up sterile, and thus are incapable of bringing forth offspring of thier own, i.e. further generations. If they HAD this ability, much could probably be learned by studying that kind of unique heredity, perhaps? : )</p>
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		<title>By: Dr.Mikenstien</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1953</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr.Mikenstien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2011 20:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1953</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve read quite a lot about bats actually, and while not widely noted or recorded, thier immune systems do carry the trait walter described in the episode... SOME species of bats, indeed many, have immune systems with advanced immuno-functions, making them able to be infected by MANY different diseases, even simultaneously, without signs or symptoms of the infection they are afflicted with showing in any of thier tissues. The immune system is usually strong/complex enough to keep the pathogen&#039;s replication in check, preventing the disease from manifesting, even if its NOT really strong enough to COMPLETELY remove the pathogen and &#039;cure&#039; itself from infection... What remains is a bat that HAS a disease, but shows no signs of symptoms of it, making bats great reseviour species for spreading/infectious microbes/pathogens.

Why this is possible is still being studied, but theories like the extremely fast rate of a bats metabolism, combined with its natural proficiency to assemble/produce antibodies, plus its lymphatic functions being similar to other mammals, have prompted even biotech organizations to code and catalogue the little guys&#039; (bats&#039;) proteins for future study.

Whats this mean for the episode :

So if you ask me? The episode&#039;s writing holds a little water. Not a LOT of water, and no not ALL the water, but some, certainly... And if the fact that bat DNA isnt a good enough answer/explaination for making a giant monster outa genetic hybridization... I remind you, you are not watching BBC... this is not a documentary about cutting-edge science... its a Fictional Drama about FBI investigations into impossible occurences... So just let it go, and be glad the writers took the time to do a LITTLE research, which is more than a lot of shows can really say (coughs the name &#039;smallville&#039;)... And besides... if there WAS a proven way of making cross-phylogenic genetic hybrids work (and you hear about new ones being successful all the time! The fish-potato for example, thats cross-class let alone cross-phylum), then why on earth would the good people at the network, really broadcast how the secret/trick works to you know... people like me and you... o.0?  : P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read quite a lot about bats actually, and while not widely noted or recorded, thier immune systems do carry the trait walter described in the episode&#8230; SOME species of bats, indeed many, have immune systems with advanced immuno-functions, making them able to be infected by MANY different diseases, even simultaneously, without signs or symptoms of the infection they are afflicted with showing in any of thier tissues. The immune system is usually strong/complex enough to keep the pathogen&#8217;s replication in check, preventing the disease from manifesting, even if its NOT really strong enough to COMPLETELY remove the pathogen and &#8216;cure&#8217; itself from infection&#8230; What remains is a bat that HAS a disease, but shows no signs of symptoms of it, making bats great reseviour species for spreading/infectious microbes/pathogens.</p>
<p>Why this is possible is still being studied, but theories like the extremely fast rate of a bats metabolism, combined with its natural proficiency to assemble/produce antibodies, plus its lymphatic functions being similar to other mammals, have prompted even biotech organizations to code and catalogue the little guys&#8217; (bats&#8217;) proteins for future study.</p>
<p>Whats this mean for the episode :</p>
<p>So if you ask me? The episode&#8217;s writing holds a little water. Not a LOT of water, and no not ALL the water, but some, certainly&#8230; And if the fact that bat DNA isnt a good enough answer/explaination for making a giant monster outa genetic hybridization&#8230; I remind you, you are not watching BBC&#8230; this is not a documentary about cutting-edge science&#8230; its a Fictional Drama about FBI investigations into impossible occurences&#8230; So just let it go, and be glad the writers took the time to do a LITTLE research, which is more than a lot of shows can really say (coughs the name &#8216;smallville&#8217;)&#8230; And besides&#8230; if there WAS a proven way of making cross-phylogenic genetic hybrids work (and you hear about new ones being successful all the time! The fish-potato for example, thats cross-class let alone cross-phylum), then why on earth would the good people at the network, really broadcast how the secret/trick works to you know&#8230; people like me and you&#8230; o.0?  : P</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1952</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 13:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1952</guid>
		<description>the bat was supposedly used was it a micro-chiroptera or a macro chiroptera? the other thing,all those creatures have a different genetic make up,so cominng up with a viable offspring is next to impossible. great fiction work though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the bat was supposedly used was it a micro-chiroptera or a macro chiroptera? the other thing,all those creatures have a different genetic make up,so cominng up with a viable offspring is next to impossible. great fiction work though.</p>
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		<title>By: Zerkaden</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1951</link>
		<dc:creator>Zerkaden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 21:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1951</guid>
		<description>Hi!

I just finished the first season of Fringe, and was also kind of interested in the composition of the monster, particularly because of the explanation about the role of the bat and its immune system. I tried to search (not far, just one or two google questions) and found a part of the answer on a Swiss medical website (it is in French so I&#039;ll translate the interesting part of the article).

According to the author, the bat&#039;s immune system possesses a quite low amount of B-cells, which probably explains his tolerance to the viruses and other micro-organisms that you mentionned.

P.S. : the URL of the website in which I found this is http://revue.medhyg.ch/article.php3?sid=32589. Also, I apologize for my poor English skills, but I&#039;m from Belgium and I think I might need more than tv-shows and my earlier English curses to learn the language ; )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi!</p>
<p>I just finished the first season of Fringe, and was also kind of interested in the composition of the monster, particularly because of the explanation about the role of the bat and its immune system. I tried to search (not far, just one or two google questions) and found a part of the answer on a Swiss medical website (it is in French so I&#8217;ll translate the interesting part of the article).</p>
<p>According to the author, the bat&#8217;s immune system possesses a quite low amount of B-cells, which probably explains his tolerance to the viruses and other micro-organisms that you mentionned.</p>
<p>P.S. : the URL of the website in which I found this is <a href="http://revue.medhyg.ch/article.php3?sid=32589" rel="nofollow">http://revue.medhyg.ch/article.php3?sid=32589</a>. Also, I apologize for my poor English skills, but I&#8217;m from Belgium and I think I might need more than tv-shows and my earlier English curses to learn the language ; )</p>
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		<title>By: zack</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1950</link>
		<dc:creator>zack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1950</guid>
		<description>dont kill them please i love them</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dont kill them please i love them</p>
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		<title>By: yevgenia</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1949</link>
		<dc:creator>yevgenia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jan 2010 18:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1949</guid>
		<description>what does this have to do with&quot;which is not poisonous to people?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what does this have to do with&#8221;which is not poisonous to people?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1948</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1948</guid>
		<description>rats are only resistant to some kinds of diseases.. the same way humans are resistant to some... where else bats are host to tons... thats the key difference in my oppinion</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rats are only resistant to some kinds of diseases.. the same way humans are resistant to some&#8230; where else bats are host to tons&#8230; thats the key difference in my oppinion</p>
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		<title>By: Mitchell Powell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1947</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitchell Powell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 02:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/04/15/fringe-the-wasp-the-bat-the-gila-monster-and-and-the-tiger/#comment-1947</guid>
		<description>Although the immune systems of bats may be unspectacular according to apollo, there is at least one virus expert who thinks that the ability of bats to coexist with many different types of viruses without showing symptoms may possibly hold promise for the medical field:  http://www.csiro.au/news/Bat-Helps-Virus.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although the immune systems of bats may be unspectacular according to apollo, there is at least one virus expert who thinks that the ability of bats to coexist with many different types of viruses without showing symptoms may possibly hold promise for the medical field:  <a href="http://www.csiro.au/news/Bat-Helps-Virus.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.csiro.au/news/Bat-Helps-Virus.html</a></p>
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