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	<title>Comments on: First Contact: How to Avoid Threatening to Slap the Aliens Senseless</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/</link>
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		<title>By: PC Repair St. Louis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2132</link>
		<dc:creator>PC Repair St. Louis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 21:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2132</guid>
		<description>Greetings from Ohio! I&#039;m bored to death at work so I decided to browse your site on my iphone during lunch break. I really like the information you present here and can&#039;t wait to take a look when I get home. I&#039;m surprised at how fast your blog loaded on my phone .. I&#039;m not even using WIFI, just 3G .. Anyways, amazing site!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greetings from Ohio! I&#8217;m bored to death at work so I decided to browse your site on my iphone during lunch break. I really like the information you present here and can&#8217;t wait to take a look when I get home. I&#8217;m surprised at how fast your blog loaded on my phone .. I&#8217;m not even using WIFI, just 3G .. Anyways, amazing site!</p>
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		<title>By: Kellie Rafalski</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2131</link>
		<dc:creator>Kellie Rafalski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2131</guid>
		<description>Finally a Posting, that even I understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally a Posting, that even I understand.</p>
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		<title>By: green living</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2130</link>
		<dc:creator>green living</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 09:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2130</guid>
		<description>Whats up, You write some good blogs. I always check back here often to see if you have updated. I thought you might want to know, as soon as I click your RSS feed it re-directs me to another website.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whats up, You write some good blogs. I always check back here often to see if you have updated. I thought you might want to know, as soon as I click your RSS feed it re-directs me to another website.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2129</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 00:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2129</guid>
		<description>I personally think that the issues of communication are probably quite solvable, even considering different cultures and world views.  There are hundreds (thousands? millions?) of examples of people who, with little in common, slowly develop a linguistic connection.  You start with the nouns and the proper names of things.  The desire to communicate is the key and all other matters are secondary and solvable.

Am I oversimplifying?  Well of course that&#039;s possible.  However with 2 motivated parties I think they&#039;ll find a way.  The development of various creoles and pidgin languages is a pretty good indicator of how far an intelligence motivated to speak will go.  And that includes if &quot;speaking&quot; is done with electromagnetic wavelengths, sound waves, motions or whatever.

The hard problem is that of differing technological achievements and the motivations of the species involved.  It&#039;s difficult to overstate that within Earth societies, the more technologically advanced societies have dominated the less advanced societies.  That&#039;s socially, economically, politically, militarily, religiously, biologically, and in every other way (except perhaps morally, which is a profoundly muddy situation).

Star Trek spent a lot of time of the issue of first contact and I think they identified some of the key issues.  Learn the language and culture, observe your alien, try to understand their culture.  Only then proceed to make contact.  Lots can still go wrong.

However when the more advanced civilization has an agenda of domination (even if it&#039;s phrased as &quot;helping&quot; or &quot;educating&quot;), then there&#039;s little hope for the weaker species.  They may survive and even prosper in the long run but the short and medium term holds only tragedy for them.

In Brazil, I understand that the government has been following a novel policy regarding contact with remote &amp; isolated tribes.  If the tribal peoples act like they don&#039;t want to communicate, trade, or even meet, then respect their wishes and forbid contact with them within your own society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally think that the issues of communication are probably quite solvable, even considering different cultures and world views.  There are hundreds (thousands? millions?) of examples of people who, with little in common, slowly develop a linguistic connection.  You start with the nouns and the proper names of things.  The desire to communicate is the key and all other matters are secondary and solvable.</p>
<p>Am I oversimplifying?  Well of course that&#8217;s possible.  However with 2 motivated parties I think they&#8217;ll find a way.  The development of various creoles and pidgin languages is a pretty good indicator of how far an intelligence motivated to speak will go.  And that includes if &#8220;speaking&#8221; is done with electromagnetic wavelengths, sound waves, motions or whatever.</p>
<p>The hard problem is that of differing technological achievements and the motivations of the species involved.  It&#8217;s difficult to overstate that within Earth societies, the more technologically advanced societies have dominated the less advanced societies.  That&#8217;s socially, economically, politically, militarily, religiously, biologically, and in every other way (except perhaps morally, which is a profoundly muddy situation).</p>
<p>Star Trek spent a lot of time of the issue of first contact and I think they identified some of the key issues.  Learn the language and culture, observe your alien, try to understand their culture.  Only then proceed to make contact.  Lots can still go wrong.</p>
<p>However when the more advanced civilization has an agenda of domination (even if it&#8217;s phrased as &#8220;helping&#8221; or &#8220;educating&#8221;), then there&#8217;s little hope for the weaker species.  They may survive and even prosper in the long run but the short and medium term holds only tragedy for them.</p>
<p>In Brazil, I understand that the government has been following a novel policy regarding contact with remote &amp; isolated tribes.  If the tribal peoples act like they don&#8217;t want to communicate, trade, or even meet, then respect their wishes and forbid contact with them within your own society.</p>
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		<title>By: vel</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2128</link>
		<dc:creator>vel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2128</guid>
		<description>is it really true that someone say 50 LY from earth could receive television broadcasts of Lucy?  They weren&#039;t using satellites much in those days so it would be station to station broadcasts. Where any of these ever pointed &quot;up&quot;?  And aren&#039;t the signals sent to Voyager very tight beam to compensate for the diffusion at the point of contact?  Could we receive such signals in Arecibo?  It always seems that these claims are nice little stories but are they true at all?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>is it really true that someone say 50 LY from earth could receive television broadcasts of Lucy?  They weren&#8217;t using satellites much in those days so it would be station to station broadcasts. Where any of these ever pointed &#8220;up&#8221;?  And aren&#8217;t the signals sent to Voyager very tight beam to compensate for the diffusion at the point of contact?  Could we receive such signals in Arecibo?  It always seems that these claims are nice little stories but are they true at all?</p>
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		<title>By: tony</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2127</link>
		<dc:creator>tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2127</guid>
		<description>Thomas: Agreed...uncertainty is at the heart of this entire discussion. The idea of extraterrestrials taking different approaches to observing humans is an interesting one. It could certainly explain the alleged contact situations in history. It would be an especially acute problem if there are multiple civilizations out there, with many different approaches in the study of humans. I find the issue of extraterrestrial social politics intriguing because it just expands the complications in any First Contact situation. Not only do they have to figure out our society, but we have to deal with their social complexities. Of course none of this is even possible unless they can understand our languages. I would suppose it really comes down to the purpose of an extraterrestrial visit. Are they here as part of a scientific expedition or for commerce? Are they on a religious quest or staking out new territory? Or are they so hard for us to understand that we have trouble even fathoming their reasons?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas: Agreed&#8230;uncertainty is at the heart of this entire discussion. The idea of extraterrestrials taking different approaches to observing humans is an interesting one. It could certainly explain the alleged contact situations in history. It would be an especially acute problem if there are multiple civilizations out there, with many different approaches in the study of humans. I find the issue of extraterrestrial social politics intriguing because it just expands the complications in any First Contact situation. Not only do they have to figure out our society, but we have to deal with their social complexities. Of course none of this is even possible unless they can understand our languages. I would suppose it really comes down to the purpose of an extraterrestrial visit. Are they here as part of a scientific expedition or for commerce? Are they on a religious quest or staking out new territory? Or are they so hard for us to understand that we have trouble even fathoming their reasons?</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2126</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2126</guid>
		<description>Tony: while you&#039;re essentially correct when you say that language is &lt;i&gt;merely a form of code based on a set of rules and constants&lt;/i&gt;, that statement really does oversimplify the issue.

Even within our own species languages differ greatly. Concepts exist in one language that are difficult, nigh impossible to translate into others. One language draws differentiations between concepts, even between physical realities that others do not. Not all cultures recognize the same spectrum of colors, for instance. Don&#039;t forget that it is hugely difficult for an adult person to gain fluency in a language with which they were previously unfamiliar, even given total immersion.

Remember also that these linguistic incongruities persist even though we all share a common brain chemistry. While there are certain universals, like a distinction between nouns, verbs and adjectives that make intra-human language learning possible, we cannot take it as a given that an extra-terrestrial species would have any commonality with us in terms of communication. Their language might not make the same distinctions between parts of speech. Their language might be entirely non-verbal: a series of bio-luminecent flashes, hyper-sonic sounds or they may have a biological means of producing and hearing radio waves.

Regarding your point about careful observation and study of a civilization, I will fully concede that &lt;i&gt;Science, whether human or alien, has a basic premise of observation and testing&lt;/i&gt;. However, a first contact situation is much more akin to a work of social science or diplomacy than to discrete science.  Today&#039;s anthropologists continue to debate on the best means to observe a culture. While there are many that favor viewing from afar, a larger number favor interaction with or immersion in that culture. Remember that those conflicting opinions are all held by human scientists that share a common frame of reference. Aliens might make an entirely novel estimation of the issue that we would never, nay, could never have thought of.

The point is that, while  speculating about communication with aliens is an excellent thought exercise, it really doesn&#039;t tell us anything concrete about how an alien civilization might actually communicate. Any such discussion is predicated on our own understanding of communication which is, in turn, defined by our biology and our experiences on this planet. A species with differing biology that emerged on a different planet might not be compatible with us at all.  On the other hand, they may be very much like us indeed. We simply don&#039;t know with any certainty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony: while you&#8217;re essentially correct when you say that language is <i>merely a form of code based on a set of rules and constants</i>, that statement really does oversimplify the issue.</p>
<p>Even within our own species languages differ greatly. Concepts exist in one language that are difficult, nigh impossible to translate into others. One language draws differentiations between concepts, even between physical realities that others do not. Not all cultures recognize the same spectrum of colors, for instance. Don&#8217;t forget that it is hugely difficult for an adult person to gain fluency in a language with which they were previously unfamiliar, even given total immersion.</p>
<p>Remember also that these linguistic incongruities persist even though we all share a common brain chemistry. While there are certain universals, like a distinction between nouns, verbs and adjectives that make intra-human language learning possible, we cannot take it as a given that an extra-terrestrial species would have any commonality with us in terms of communication. Their language might not make the same distinctions between parts of speech. Their language might be entirely non-verbal: a series of bio-luminecent flashes, hyper-sonic sounds or they may have a biological means of producing and hearing radio waves.</p>
<p>Regarding your point about careful observation and study of a civilization, I will fully concede that <i>Science, whether human or alien, has a basic premise of observation and testing</i>. However, a first contact situation is much more akin to a work of social science or diplomacy than to discrete science.  Today&#8217;s anthropologists continue to debate on the best means to observe a culture. While there are many that favor viewing from afar, a larger number favor interaction with or immersion in that culture. Remember that those conflicting opinions are all held by human scientists that share a common frame of reference. Aliens might make an entirely novel estimation of the issue that we would never, nay, could never have thought of.</p>
<p>The point is that, while  speculating about communication with aliens is an excellent thought exercise, it really doesn&#8217;t tell us anything concrete about how an alien civilization might actually communicate. Any such discussion is predicated on our own understanding of communication which is, in turn, defined by our biology and our experiences on this planet. A species with differing biology that emerged on a different planet might not be compatible with us at all.  On the other hand, they may be very much like us indeed. We simply don&#8217;t know with any certainty.</p>
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		<title>By: tony</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2125</link>
		<dc:creator>tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thomas, that&#039;s an interesting perspective. But why would aliens bother discovering new worlds? It would seem some investigative based science would have to drive such a mission. Anyone capable of traveling those distances, whether with 1970&#039;s technology or 2700 technology, would understand a careful process of observation and study. After all, that&#039;s the process that allowed them to find us in the first place. Science, whether human or alien, has a basic premise of observation and testing. It seems unlikely anyone would manage to travel immense distances without a scientific process of some sort. If you did understand observation and study, why would you just go barging in as soon as you found another intelligent life form? Wouldn&#039;t you spend some time to study this new life form and truly understand them? That would mean learning the language or languages. If you could find a way to park yourself in the solar system, but outside of detection, you could observe and analyze radio and television communications for many years. Television would be especially helpful, in that you could find visual representations of how people use and react to speech. I think communication would be the least of the problems for a visiting extraterrestrial civilization. After all, it&#039;s merely a form of code based on a set of rules and constants. The tougher part, in my estimation, would be the complex social and political interactions of humans. Whom do the extraterrestrials approach first on planet Earth? What would be the consequences of such contact? How would they be received? How would they ensure a warm reception? I think an understanding of our math, sciences and communication would be the easiest task for a visiting extraterrestrial delegation. Deciding when and how to contact us would be the tough part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas, that&#8217;s an interesting perspective. But why would aliens bother discovering new worlds? It would seem some investigative based science would have to drive such a mission. Anyone capable of traveling those distances, whether with 1970&#8242;s technology or 2700 technology, would understand a careful process of observation and study. After all, that&#8217;s the process that allowed them to find us in the first place. Science, whether human or alien, has a basic premise of observation and testing. It seems unlikely anyone would manage to travel immense distances without a scientific process of some sort. If you did understand observation and study, why would you just go barging in as soon as you found another intelligent life form? Wouldn&#8217;t you spend some time to study this new life form and truly understand them? That would mean learning the language or languages. If you could find a way to park yourself in the solar system, but outside of detection, you could observe and analyze radio and television communications for many years. Television would be especially helpful, in that you could find visual representations of how people use and react to speech. I think communication would be the least of the problems for a visiting extraterrestrial civilization. After all, it&#8217;s merely a form of code based on a set of rules and constants. The tougher part, in my estimation, would be the complex social and political interactions of humans. Whom do the extraterrestrials approach first on planet Earth? What would be the consequences of such contact? How would they be received? How would they ensure a warm reception? I think an understanding of our math, sciences and communication would be the easiest task for a visiting extraterrestrial delegation. Deciding when and how to contact us would be the tough part.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2124</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 01:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2124</guid>
		<description>While it&#039;s likely that a visiting alien species would have technology vastly superior to ours, that&#039;s not an automatic. It&#039;s  likely that we currently have the technology to send a person to another star system. The cost and the time frame of such a journey make it impractical but they do not make it impossible.

There is certainly the possibility that a species with 1970&#039;s level technology but possessing a different value set might not make the same determination about such a mission&#039;s feasibility.

It&#039;s also possible that their technological development may have been fundamentally different from ours and that our devices are simply not analogous to one another and thus any discussion of which is more advanced might, itself, be meaningless.

Point being, any alien species that we are likely to meet will probably be so different that communication will be slow and probably mathematical  in nature, if it&#039;s possible at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While it&#8217;s likely that a visiting alien species would have technology vastly superior to ours, that&#8217;s not an automatic. It&#8217;s  likely that we currently have the technology to send a person to another star system. The cost and the time frame of such a journey make it impractical but they do not make it impossible.</p>
<p>There is certainly the possibility that a species with 1970&#8242;s level technology but possessing a different value set might not make the same determination about such a mission&#8217;s feasibility.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also possible that their technological development may have been fundamentally different from ours and that our devices are simply not analogous to one another and thus any discussion of which is more advanced might, itself, be meaningless.</p>
<p>Point being, any alien species that we are likely to meet will probably be so different that communication will be slow and probably mathematical  in nature, if it&#8217;s possible at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Astronomy Science Fair Projects</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2123</link>
		<dc:creator>Astronomy Science Fair Projects</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:35:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/06/24/first-contact-how-to-avoid-threatening-to-slap-the-aliens-senseless/#comment-2123</guid>
		<description>This is an interesting topic that would make a great science fair project. The project can examine what type of information “should” be included in transmissions into to space that are designed to “make contact.” Another question that may be posed is “should we be giving away secrets about our genetics, biology and weaknesses?” Students, you need to think about this question when designing your transmission.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an interesting topic that would make a great science fair project. The project can examine what type of information “should” be included in transmissions into to space that are designed to “make contact.” Another question that may be posed is “should we be giving away secrets about our genetics, biology and weaknesses?” Students, you need to think about this question when designing your transmission.</p>
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