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	<title>Comments on: Why Did Consciousness Evolve, and How Can We Modify It, Pt. II: The Supremacy of Vision</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2011/05/23/why-did-consciousness-evolve-and-how-can-we-modify-it-pt-ii-the-supremacy-of-vision/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2011/05/23/why-did-consciousness-evolve-and-how-can-we-modify-it-pt-ii-the-supremacy-of-vision/</link>
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		<title>By: Malcolm MacIver</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2011/05/23/why-did-consciousness-evolve-and-how-can-we-modify-it-pt-ii-the-supremacy-of-vision/#comment-5251</link>
		<dc:creator>Malcolm MacIver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Aug 2011 02:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/?p=4364#comment-5251</guid>
		<description>@Andy - in my argument, nothing turns on three-dimensionality. A cyclops would be fine, so long as the eye sees far enough out, and the brain it is part of can use monocular cues (like occlusion) to make guesses about depth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Andy &#8211; in my argument, nothing turns on three-dimensionality. A cyclops would be fine, so long as the eye sees far enough out, and the brain it is part of can use monocular cues (like occlusion) to make guesses about depth.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2011/05/23/why-did-consciousness-evolve-and-how-can-we-modify-it-pt-ii-the-supremacy-of-vision/#comment-5250</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2011 17:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/?p=4364#comment-5250</guid>
		<description>In a response to the first post, I pointed out that equating consciousness with the ability to plan, or entertain multiple scenarios before acting, is problematic. There is no reason in principle why an unconscious organism could not plan, indeed, in theory why an organism just like a human being could not be entirely unconscious (the philosophical zombie).

I will add here that I do agree very much with the claim that vision is the most powerful sense, and that there are good reasons for thinking its evolution would be much more advantageous on land. But rather than equate this with consciousness, how about with dimensionality? That is, vision is closely associated with the ability to experience (assuming the organism is conscious) or sense (without making any assumptions about consciousness) three dimensional space.

Other senses are generally associated with the experience of fewer spatial dimensions. Consider smell or chemosensitivity. You note that passive sensation of chemicals and some other stimuli is like a game of hot or cold. A more precise way of putting this is to say that it&#039;s associated with one dimensional experience. When an organism (or even a chemosensitive bacterium) moves towards a chemical-emitting source, it needs to sense only a single dimension of space: an axis formed by the source at one end and itself at the other.  As the stimulus, such as concentration of chemical substance in the water, becomes greater, it is closer to the source, and there is a relationship, albeit not a linear one, between concentration and distance. In fact, the most primitive organisms (such as various phyla of worms) sense the world largely in this fashion.

Somewhat more evolved organisms, such as insects and other arthropods, also make extensive use of chemical signals (pheromones, for example), but generally live on land and also have visual systems. These organisms might be said to be in a between-state where their experience of the environment is largely two-dimensional. This has been shown, for example, in forager ants, which measure the two-dimensional distance between their nest and a food source--even when they must climb intervening hills--and the praying mantis, which will attack cardboard rectangles if they have two-dimensional relationships similar to those of normal prey.

Full three-dimensional experience appears to have evolved in the highest invertebrates--flying insects such as bees,  and cephalopods like the octopus--and is present in probably all vertebrates. Almost all of these organisms rely heavily on vision, though of course may make use of other senses as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a response to the first post, I pointed out that equating consciousness with the ability to plan, or entertain multiple scenarios before acting, is problematic. There is no reason in principle why an unconscious organism could not plan, indeed, in theory why an organism just like a human being could not be entirely unconscious (the philosophical zombie).</p>
<p>I will add here that I do agree very much with the claim that vision is the most powerful sense, and that there are good reasons for thinking its evolution would be much more advantageous on land. But rather than equate this with consciousness, how about with dimensionality? That is, vision is closely associated with the ability to experience (assuming the organism is conscious) or sense (without making any assumptions about consciousness) three dimensional space.</p>
<p>Other senses are generally associated with the experience of fewer spatial dimensions. Consider smell or chemosensitivity. You note that passive sensation of chemicals and some other stimuli is like a game of hot or cold. A more precise way of putting this is to say that it&#8217;s associated with one dimensional experience. When an organism (or even a chemosensitive bacterium) moves towards a chemical-emitting source, it needs to sense only a single dimension of space: an axis formed by the source at one end and itself at the other.  As the stimulus, such as concentration of chemical substance in the water, becomes greater, it is closer to the source, and there is a relationship, albeit not a linear one, between concentration and distance. In fact, the most primitive organisms (such as various phyla of worms) sense the world largely in this fashion.</p>
<p>Somewhat more evolved organisms, such as insects and other arthropods, also make extensive use of chemical signals (pheromones, for example), but generally live on land and also have visual systems. These organisms might be said to be in a between-state where their experience of the environment is largely two-dimensional. This has been shown, for example, in forager ants, which measure the two-dimensional distance between their nest and a food source&#8211;even when they must climb intervening hills&#8211;and the praying mantis, which will attack cardboard rectangles if they have two-dimensional relationships similar to those of normal prey.</p>
<p>Full three-dimensional experience appears to have evolved in the highest invertebrates&#8211;flying insects such as bees,  and cephalopods like the octopus&#8211;and is present in probably all vertebrates. Almost all of these organisms rely heavily on vision, though of course may make use of other senses as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Burnham</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2011/05/23/why-did-consciousness-evolve-and-how-can-we-modify-it-pt-ii-the-supremacy-of-vision/#comment-5249</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Burnham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2011 07:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/?p=4364#comment-5249</guid>
		<description>This is a very compelling argument for the emergence of plan-making. But, as Dante says, this is not a compelling argument for the emergence of &quot;consciousness.&quot; I lean toward the idea that consciousness is a feeling, or a collection of feelings, or a state of being—what it&#039;s like to be _____. There is something that it is like to be a fish, therefore fish are conscious.

But what I like about the focus on plan-making is that it provides a transition point at which an organism has a kind of consciousness that is much more morally significant. In college I became a vegetarian for a variety of reasons, not least of which was the idea that animals are conscious (by my definition) and that consciousness is morally relevant. But I&#039;ve since repented on that point, recognizing that not all consciousnesses are created equal (and for those interested in my diet, I still eat mostly-vegetarian with the occasional bite or two of delicious, tasty animal flesh as a rare treat). Some consciousnesses are much more morally significant than others, IMO, and plan-making seems to be a big part of my intuition here.

(And before anyone brings it up, yes, this means that human embryos, newborns, and even the severely developmentally disabled may not have morally significant consciousnesses. But there are plenty of other criteria by which they are still deserving of moral consideration, not least of which is that they are human and we ought to take care of our own. Moving on.)

The argument from your first post that shared awareness will make us more moral is a tricky place to tread. On the one hand, people will pick up on the Borg thing, and connect it to 1984 and groupthink, and the next thing you know you&#039;re being called a Nazi. But while it&#039;s true that mob mentality and propaganda emphasizing group loyalty can lead us down the worst paths humans are capable of treading, that is not the necessary outcome of a breakdown of individuality. Buddhism and other peaceful, introspective doctrines teach that individuality is an illusion and encourage rejection of the self in favor of a unifying worldview in which consciousness is seen as a pervasive and fundamental part of all existence.

(I&#039;m not saying Buddhists are right. But I am saying that, despite systematically dismantling the &quot;self&quot;, they&#039;re not Nazis.)

So don&#039;t get too optimistic that shared awareness is a moral panacea. It could go either way—most likely both. Sense-sharing technology would certainly have applications for disaster relief and other &quot;good&quot; causes. But let&#039;s be honest: the moment we invent that stuff, it&#039;s going to be used for porn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very compelling argument for the emergence of plan-making. But, as Dante says, this is not a compelling argument for the emergence of &#8220;consciousness.&#8221; I lean toward the idea that consciousness is a feeling, or a collection of feelings, or a state of being—what it&#8217;s like to be _____. There is something that it is like to be a fish, therefore fish are conscious.</p>
<p>But what I like about the focus on plan-making is that it provides a transition point at which an organism has a kind of consciousness that is much more morally significant. In college I became a vegetarian for a variety of reasons, not least of which was the idea that animals are conscious (by my definition) and that consciousness is morally relevant. But I&#8217;ve since repented on that point, recognizing that not all consciousnesses are created equal (and for those interested in my diet, I still eat mostly-vegetarian with the occasional bite or two of delicious, tasty animal flesh as a rare treat). Some consciousnesses are much more morally significant than others, IMO, and plan-making seems to be a big part of my intuition here.</p>
<p>(And before anyone brings it up, yes, this means that human embryos, newborns, and even the severely developmentally disabled may not have morally significant consciousnesses. But there are plenty of other criteria by which they are still deserving of moral consideration, not least of which is that they are human and we ought to take care of our own. Moving on.)</p>
<p>The argument from your first post that shared awareness will make us more moral is a tricky place to tread. On the one hand, people will pick up on the Borg thing, and connect it to 1984 and groupthink, and the next thing you know you&#8217;re being called a Nazi. But while it&#8217;s true that mob mentality and propaganda emphasizing group loyalty can lead us down the worst paths humans are capable of treading, that is not the necessary outcome of a breakdown of individuality. Buddhism and other peaceful, introspective doctrines teach that individuality is an illusion and encourage rejection of the self in favor of a unifying worldview in which consciousness is seen as a pervasive and fundamental part of all existence.</p>
<p>(I&#8217;m not saying Buddhists are right. But I am saying that, despite systematically dismantling the &#8220;self&#8221;, they&#8217;re not Nazis.)</p>
<p>So don&#8217;t get too optimistic that shared awareness is a moral panacea. It could go either way—most likely both. Sense-sharing technology would certainly have applications for disaster relief and other &#8220;good&#8221; causes. But let&#8217;s be honest: the moment we invent that stuff, it&#8217;s going to be used for porn.</p>
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		<title>By: Dante</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2011/05/23/why-did-consciousness-evolve-and-how-can-we-modify-it-pt-ii-the-supremacy-of-vision/#comment-5248</link>
		<dc:creator>Dante</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2011 00:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/?p=4364#comment-5248</guid>
		<description>Even though I agree with sight being a good (not the supreme) sense, I&#039;m still not convinced that we can define consciousness. In the definition given, your argument works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even though I agree with sight being a good (not the supreme) sense, I&#8217;m still not convinced that we can define consciousness. In the definition given, your argument works.</p>
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		<title>By: Ramesh Raghuvanshi</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2011/05/23/why-did-consciousness-evolve-and-how-can-we-modify-it-pt-ii-the-supremacy-of-vision/#comment-5247</link>
		<dc:creator>Ramesh Raghuvanshi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 May 2011 03:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/?p=4364#comment-5247</guid>
		<description>Consciousness  evolved in human spices only because our brain developed more speedily than other animal.Main reason for man development is we started to walk on lag our hand are free.Our  consciousness developed rapidly because our fear of death  and survival instinct  developed rapidly.This survival instinct made us live in group , so our language developed for communication.Real reason  of involvement of consciousness is to  overcome fear of death.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Consciousness  evolved in human spices only because our brain developed more speedily than other animal.Main reason for man development is we started to walk on lag our hand are free.Our  consciousness developed rapidly because our fear of death  and survival instinct  developed rapidly.This survival instinct made us live in group , so our language developed for communication.Real reason  of involvement of consciousness is to  overcome fear of death.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Saunders</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2011/05/23/why-did-consciousness-evolve-and-how-can-we-modify-it-pt-ii-the-supremacy-of-vision/#comment-5246</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Saunders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2011 23:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/?p=4364#comment-5246</guid>
		<description>Coolies post; this reminds me of some of the good stuff of College, where we&#039;d go on riffs on things like &quot;Ok.  You&#039;re a butterfly, what is it like?&quot; :)

So, contemplation of plans...hmm...could you see yourself doing a post on why some matter would have contemplation of plans?  What advantages would it give them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coolies post; this reminds me of some of the good stuff of College, where we&#8217;d go on riffs on things like &#8220;Ok.  You&#8217;re a butterfly, what is it like?&#8221; <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>So, contemplation of plans&#8230;hmm&#8230;could you see yourself doing a post on why some matter would have contemplation of plans?  What advantages would it give them?</p>
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		<title>By: Sondra</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2011/05/23/why-did-consciousness-evolve-and-how-can-we-modify-it-pt-ii-the-supremacy-of-vision/#comment-5245</link>
		<dc:creator>Sondra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2011 20:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/?p=4364#comment-5245</guid>
		<description>A great post, lots for my consciousness to assimilate through mind and my many senses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A great post, lots for my consciousness to assimilate through mind and my many senses.</p>
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		<title>By: yogi-one</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2011/05/23/why-did-consciousness-evolve-and-how-can-we-modify-it-pt-ii-the-supremacy-of-vision/#comment-5244</link>
		<dc:creator>yogi-one</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 15:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/?p=4364#comment-5244</guid>
		<description>Interesting definition of consciousness:  &quot;the ability to plan&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting definition of consciousness:  &#8220;the ability to plan&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: jld</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2011/05/23/why-did-consciousness-evolve-and-how-can-we-modify-it-pt-ii-the-supremacy-of-vision/#comment-5243</link>
		<dc:creator>jld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 14:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/?p=4364#comment-5243</guid>
		<description>Some humans are quite good at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mensjournal.com/the-blind-man-who-taught-himself-to-see&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;echolocation&lt;/a&gt; too...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some humans are quite good at <a href="http://www.mensjournal.com/the-blind-man-who-taught-himself-to-see" rel="nofollow">echolocation</a> too&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Malcolm MacIver</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2011/05/23/why-did-consciousness-evolve-and-how-can-we-modify-it-pt-ii-the-supremacy-of-vision/#comment-5242</link>
		<dc:creator>Malcolm MacIver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 11:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/?p=4364#comment-5242</guid>
		<description>@Kees - thanks for pointing out this mistake. Fixed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kees &#8211; thanks for pointing out this mistake. Fixed.</p>
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