Incest vs. polygamy

By Razib Khan | December 15, 2010 1:31 am

Today in Slate there’s an argument for why society should discourage first-degree incest. The main thrust of the piece seems to be broadly utilitarian, in that incest is destructive to the family unit and society has a rational motive in discouraging the practice. The reason that the argument is even made is because of analogies that some social conservatives make between incest and gay marriage. I’m not too interested in the argument against first-degree incest, because I think this is a practice which is aberrant because there are biological dispositions most humans have which make it unthinkable.* Though the genetic reasons are broadly well known, Steven Pinker reports on the psychological mechanisms which enforce the taboos in The Blank Slate.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule. The first-degree incest taboos can be violated in the case of royal families which wish to preserve and accentuate their divine genealogical essence. This was famously well known in ancient Egypt down to the Roman conquest, but one also found the practice in Hawaii. In rural Egypt apparently brother-sister marriage continued among commoners (who presumably emulated the elites) down to the Roman period. Human nature has dispositions in many cases which are not “hard-wired.” But the disposition in this case is so strong that I believe arguing about the legality of consensual adult incest is an academic matter. The discussion is only surfacing because of its possible relevance to another issue, gay marriage.

Polygamy though is a different case. Here the ethnography seems to be clear that though the majority of men in the majority of societies did not practice polygamy, in most cultures polygamy was acceptable, and commonly practiced by high status males. In many cases polygamy was the preferred ideal, which was not attainable for the typical male due to economic constraints. Only with the spread of Western-normative mongamous customs, inherited from the Greeks and Romans, has polygamy been marginalized.

But we may be better for it. Polygamy’s many wives don’t capture ‘market value’:

Economist Shoshana Grossbard admits she was naive when she did her doctoral thesis on polygamy more than 30 years ago at the University of Chicago.

Then, she believed that a simple supply-and-demand analysis would explain the economics of polygamous societies.

Besides, she says, “I thought it was cool to say that polygamy might be advantageous to women and repeat what Gary Becker (her thesis adviser and Nobel laureate) has said.”

Polygamous societies have a higher frequency of arranged marriages. It’s not surprising, says Grossbard. Young women aren’t likely to choose old men for husbands, plus men find young wives easier to control.

Of course, that increases the likelihood of early widowhood and financial hardship.

In societies where a bride price is paid, women don’t “capture their increased market value.” Instead, she says, potential husbands pay the fathers. No money goes to the bride.

Divorce tends to be easier in polygamous societies. The threat of it keeps women in line and it allows men to shed wives who are too old or noncompliant.

Child custody almost always is the right of the father.

Isolating women makes it more difficult for them to escape and makes them even more financially dependent on their husbands.

As beautiful as the harem in Grenada’s Alhambra is, Grossbard says, “The whole institution is typical of polygamous societies.”

There, eunuchs – castrated men – guard the wives.

There are variations in the nature of polygamy. My understanding is that in some African societies women in polygamous relationships have their own independent economic life, and the male is a transient between matrifocal households. The opposite extreme occurs in Muslim societies where women are secluded from men and denied from participation in public life.

In any case, unlike first-degree incest or gay marriage, polygamy does remain rather common, and legal, in much of the world:

polylegal

One must note that in some nations, such as India, polygamy is only legal for minorities for which it is a traditional custom. That being said, in many nations where it is legal, it is not always common, nor is it socially acceptable in many circles.

But it is notable to me that gay marriage & incest, and polygamy, are very different cases. Polygamy is a practice which has broad appeal, and even in many societies where it is banned de facto polygamy is not uncommon. The integration of a ban on polygamy into the legal codes of societies such as India and China is interesting, because the practice was not unknown among pre-modern elites, and persisted down to the 20th century. The film Raise the Red Lantern is about a polygamous household in 1920s China. The historical roots of the turn against polygamy seems to be tied to the rise of Western hegemony within the last few hundred years, and that itself derives from the integration of Greco-Roman norms into the Christian religion. The Romans and Greeks were obligate monogamous peoples in the Classical period, and this obligate monogamy became a feature of Christianity (though not Judaism, which retained polygamy among Ashkenazim until the 10th century, and other Jewish groups which may still retain the practice, though no longer in Israel). The barbarian warlords of Northern Europe often had to make their accommodation with this “Roman” custom upon their conversion to Christianity (though the reality is that the Church often gave monarchs de facto exemption).

If the dominance of the ideal of monogamy is a contingent accident of history, will we see a shift toward greater pluralism in the near future, with the decline of the West? This is not an implausible contention. But, I also do wonder if legally sanctioned polygamy does not trigger a destabilizing “winner take all” dynamic in complex societies, producing a lack of social trust which means that such societies have limits in terms of the scale of their complexity. In other words, perhaps advanced economies necessarily need and foster a level of gender equality which formal polygamy is simply not consonant with?

Addendum: The existence of “super-male” lineages such as that of Genghis Khan is a testament to the power and presence of polygamy as a genetic phenomenon over the last 10,000 years. Even if most men in a given society can not practice polygamy because of economic and social constraints, it may be that the majority of future generations are descended from polygamists because of their fecundity, and that of their polygamous male offspring who would inherit their status.

* No comments about how you fantasized about your sister to refute my generalization!

CATEGORIZED UNDER: Culture
  • Jason Malloy

    Right, Saletan is kooky to suggest that consensual father-daughter sex is going to explode into some sexy new trend, simply because it is legal or not sufficiently frowned upon.

    But a much better case can be made that any sort of move towards sexual permissiveness (be it greater acceptance of homosexuality, incest, polygamy, or even masturbation) is socially disadvantageous not because it causes more homosexuality, incest, etc., but simply because it breaks down the social judgment barriers that work to prevent people from having nonmarital sex and out-of-wedlock children.

    This is not to suggest that I’m necessarily opposed to promiscuity and single motherhood (I think the undesirable social correlates are mostly due to correlated genetic traits — though the long-term effects are probably ‘dysgenic’), but I accept the premise that targeted permissiveness has general effects, not targeted effects.

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  • http://sacrilicio.us Matunos

    Firstly, Saletan is stretching it to drag Woody Allen’s name into the story, as Allen is married to his adopted daughter, not a blood relation. While many people may find that icky, at best it’s a nominal form of incest. And whether or not it disrupted his family is really an irrelevant anecdote.

    Here’s what I see as the difference: incest, as it’s commonly discussed, is about who one has sex with. Polygamy is about who one is married to, where marriage is some sort of binding contract (legally recognized or not). Here in the US at least, there is nothing illegal about being polyamorous, philanderous, or even polygamist, so long as you don’t try to get multiple marriages legally recognized by the government.

    Insofar as the state is going to provide legal recognition to a relationship, I think the state’s within its rights to have some control over how many people are involved in that relationship (at least, in the formal recognition thereof).

    That is a different proposition than incest, where typically, nobody is asking the state what it thinks on the matter, nor are they asking for any extra rights or privileges to be afforded the relationship. The supposed social repercussions are themselves the byproduct of psychological reactions. If everyone was fine with incestuous relationships between two consenting adults, then presumably the instability from such relationships would be lessened (it can’t be worse than alcohol abuse, can it?).

    But the fact is, most people are not fine with incestuous relationships. Not only is there typically an ingrained ‘ick’ factor amongst people, but there’s enough of it amongst observers to supply plenty of social pressure against the practice without requiring the state to intrude. Seriously, folks, incest is not one of the big problems facing our society.

    Marriage, however, by its very definition, invites the intrusion of some organization, whether it be the state, your favorite church, etc. Thus, it’s perfectly reasonable for that organization to say “no, we’re not going for that” on certain things, as long as that doesn’t also conflict with other principles (like, the idea that someone should be entitled to equal protection under the law, for instance).

  • JL

    But the fact is, most people are not fine with incestuous relationships. Not only is there typically an ingrained ‘ick’ factor amongst people, but there’s enough of it amongst observers to supply plenty of social pressure against the practice without requiring the state to intrude. Seriously, folks, incest is not one of the big problems facing our society.

    Those same arguments have been used to argue against homosexuality, but with time they have become less and less plausible as more and more people have been socialized to accept homosexual behavior. For many, the “ick” factor towards homosexuality is no longer there. Similarly, if there was a powerful pro-incest lobby, it would be possible to “reprogram” people to accept incest, even if aversion to incest is an innate tendency. As pointed out by Razib, there have been societies or at least social classes within societies that have accepted incest, so there’s no reason why it couldn’t happen again. Incest would probably never become widespread, but perhaps a few percent of the population would have incestuous relationships, the same proportion that are homosexuals.

  • ChristianK

    The legality isn’t a pure academic matter. A few years ago we had in Germany a case about incest that went up to our Supreme court which upheld the ban on incest.

  • Danny

    (Marginally) Apropos Polygamy, I’d like to recommend a book I’m currently reading, “Explanation of Ideology: Family Structure & Social System” by Emmanuel Todd, a book that attempts at a typology of family structures around the world (endogamous or not, egalitarian or not, nuclear or not), and shows how they result in different political ideologies (liberalism flourishes where families are nuclear, communism in societies that have exogamous egalitarian joint households, etc).

    In spite of being a bit dated (written 1983), using suspect psychological models, and having overly broad canvas which means that I’m sure that there are many things that the writer gets wrong or treats superficially, I found the book is very interesting and illuminating, and I do think that Todd is on to a lot. Anyway, understanding political behavior by looking at family looks very promising to me.

  • Pohranicni Straze

    In the course of my genealogical research, I ran into a family- the scions of an old and respectable Virginia family- which (apart from lots of cousin marriages) had an uncle-niece marriage in the years following the Revolutionary War. The marriage was legally accepted, was even alluded to in the RW pension file of the husband, and didn’t seem to draw any community approbation. Now, on the other hand, most people seem to regard first-cousin and even second-cousin marriage as aberrant. Is there perhaps a trend towards lower acceptance of consanguineous marriages with increased societal development, or is this mainly just an American thing?

  • Alex

    I wonder if there should be an asterisk on “monogamy” in this context to account for mistresses, long-term affairs and philandering in general. What are we really talking about when we talk about monogamy? Are there good numbers on this per state and country?

  • dan

    people tend to discuss these phenomena in abstract language as if there is magic behind it. Pinker, I believe, has discussed the actual neurological underpinnings of incest taboo in that your neurons become “tired” or unaroused according to *how long you were around them growing up.* there is no magic gene detector in the brain. that is why (otherwise normal) people occasionally hook up with their long lost daughter or sister: they didn’t grow up together so your brain doesn’t have that barrier. there are flawed individuals as exceptions, or course.

  • Anonymous, for this

    Having worked deeply with some women who were victims of familial child molestation, I was made aware that incest in common enough that it may be considered normal. Not saying it is harmless, or that I approve, far from it. When you have counseled a thirty year old woman weeping like a three year old who describes being passed around like a plate of cookies from the age of three to her grandfather, grand-uncles, father, uncles, and older brothers and cousins, you can understand the destructiveness of these practices. These stories are, unfortunately, quite common, but so distasteful and disturbing that you will not hear about them on the news, as this sort of news item interferes with selling you new cars or fast food. In fact, over 80% of reported child molestation in the USA is familial. Since most is unreported, it seems to be far commoner than normally thought.

    Additionally, since Mohammed began molesting his last wife, Aisha, at the age of six, and first committed coitus with her at nine, whole swaths of Arab society practice child molestation, particularly including incest, as a matter of course, believing it religiously permissible. This, of course, is seldom written about in English, but it’s frequency has been described several times by modern apostates. It is not religously forbidden to molest children, but theoretically coitus is not permitted until the age of nine. If you google [mohammed child molester] you will find 24,000 responses. The Christians and others shout it out accusingly, the moslems defend the practice saying truthfully that many others of the time practiced it. However, moslems today in many cases still defend the modern practice; most other societies at least pay lip service against it. At best, moslem philosphers say that today it is unacceptable and damaging, although most admit it is religiously acceptable. Incest is frequent in some sections of Arab society. If you are interested in the details, check them out for yourself, they are online. Recently, a ‘Dear Abby’ type mullah had his column supressed in part because of his writings in English about sexuality, violence against women, and such concerns.

    The other modern society where child molestation is openly practiced is Japan. Until recently, it was essentially legal for a girl of 13 to prostitute herself as long as a pimp was not involved. Laws were passed making it illegal, but my understanding is that they are primarily enforced against foreigners, and usually winked at otherwise. Again, this is a broad brush, check it out yourself for details. The manga comic books make plain the interest in incest; in the authoritarian and post authoritarian society that was and is Japan, incest has been described several times by adult women victims as common to girls of their aquaintance. It may or may not be less common now, but accounts in part for the low birth rate, as many women, due to bad experiences, do not want to marry men, and many men do not want to marry adults.

    This is what I personally am aware of. I worked extensively with Asians for a number of years and became personally close to several, including Christian Arabs, one of whom married my cousin, and several East Asian families. My readings lead me to believe that incest is common in many or most societies, though of course hidden. Many men will take advantage of weaker females (or males, for that matter), though most will not. Both Arab and Japanese writers describe mothers or older sisters sexually stimulating male children to placate them as a matter of course, as have a few writers from other societies.

    In general, Christianity seems to have a strong influence against extra-marital sex, and against incest and child molestation in particular, although, yes, the early prophets were polygamous and early marriage was the norm. Modern practice in almost all churches are strongly against sexual permissiveness, especially in formerly primitive societies where it was and is the norm, such as in parts of Africa and Asia. In Latin America, while early marriage is quite common and legal, premarital sex is expected to and usually does lead to marriage, particularly in small villages. In a recent California case, a 14 year old Mexican national found herself pregnant by a 20 year old from the same small village, with the knowledge and permission from both sets of parents. The American judge surprisingly did the right thing and sent them both back home to get married. I currently live in Mexico, btw, in an area where the legal age of consent is twelve, under certain conditions.

  • kurt9

    An interesting question is how the Greeks and Romans came to be monogamous in a world that was otherwise polygamous. I did not know that monogamy came from the Greeks and Romans, rather than the Christians. I do know that polygamy is very prominent in an accepted way in the Bible. Puts a different spin on the ideal of “Christian marriage”. Of course, we all know from history lessons that Christianity, as we know it today, is a third century A.D. kludge job and nothing more.

  • Stephen

    I think the question of a hard-wired ick-factor needs some comparative primatology. It’s not necessary, but it would be convincing, if humans are not the only animals with incest-avoidance at the kin recognition level. Far more animals, even “higher” mammals, avoid inbreeding not by psychic taboo, but rather by instinctive dispersal of one or the other sex. So it becomes a question of chimps, gorillas, baboons – - – ? Not to say that a purely cultural (and purely human) ick-factor cannot be a very powerful force.

  • diana

    “, because I think this is a practice which is aberrant because there are biological dispositions most humans have which make it unthinkable.*”

    Have you written about this previously? If you’ve already explained this exhaustively, then don’t bother to do so again (that’s annoying to the blogger) but if you haven’t, please explain.

    I’m not inclined to disagree, but I don’t think it’s that simple. Biological dispositions still need social structures to moor them. That’s what law is all about.

    Rather disturbingly, I have heard of brothers and sisters who have been separated for most of their lives. Upon meeting as adults, they experience a rush of erotic love. This horrifies me, yet I can surely see it happening.

  • diana

    Re: Saletan article. It’s really dumb. He’s conceding that (in effect) all acts including private ones, have public consequences. The public consequences of incest are by nature bad, the public consequences of homosexuality are by nature innocuous. I really don’t think he made his argument. By his own standards, what’s it to me if two gay brothers decide to have sex? No babies. What family is destroyed? The family of the two gay brothers? Destroyed how? By acting out physically their emotional entanglement? Would the family be healthier if they repressed this?

    Oh no, he’s saying other families whose sons will be convinced to have sex with one another because of two oddities in an adjoining neighborhood? Saletan: prove this.

    Like all liberaltarians, Saletan is hopelessly confused.

  • http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp Razib Khan

    Anonymous, don’t use that handle again or i’ll delete it. people need names to follow.

    Rather disturbingly, I have heard of brothers and sisters who have been separated for most of their lives. Upon meeting as adults, they experience a rush of erotic love. This horrifies me, yet I can surely see it happening.

    you’ve explained it yourself. it’s not some innate recognition of genetic similarity, but being socialized with a person growing up. this probably explains these tendencies among people who meet up as adults. there’s research on this stuff from cultures where child-brides are sent to live with their child-husband’s family, and they grow up as de facto siblings. or people who grew up together in the kibbutz. familiar in ‘critical periods’ seems to breed avoidance.

    also, for future comments:

    1 – i’m talking of first-degree incest. so coefficient of relatedness = 0.5. brother-sister, parent-child. in many societies cousin-marriage is not incest, and they don’t even understand how you could conceive of such a thing (that’s what’s funny about muslims analogizing homosexuality to incest, they don’t comprehend how disgusting people in other cultures might find their habitual cousin-marriage).

    2 – first-degree incest tales seem to be much more common in endogamous subcultures with strong patriarchal tendencies. you always here crazy stories coming out of amish, FLDS, etc.

  • http://washparkprophet.blogspot.com ohwilleke

    “The manga comic books make plain the interest in incest; in the authoritarian and post authoritarian society that was and is Japan, incest has been described several times by adult women victims as common to girls of their aquaintance. It may or may not be less common now, but accounts in part for the low birth rate, as many women, due to bad experiences, do not want to marry men, and many men do not want to marry adults.”

    Japan’s manga air a whole host of sexual topics that are taboo in mainstream American fiction (romantic relationships with juveniles bondage, rape, gender bending, homosexual relationships, etc.). Manga also show a strong interest in tentacled aliens penetrating young school girls, but that doesn’t mean that this is common in Japan.

    There probably is more acceptance in Japan of adolescents having relationships with older men, and abuse of positions of trust in general is a much more important theme in Japanese culture than in American ones (in part because those in positions of trust have more power), but it is hard to draw comparisons. How much incest lit is really allegory for other abuses of power by people in positions of trust?

    I agree that the low birth rate in Japan has a lot to do with reduced marriage rates in Japan. The fertility of married women has remained roughly constant, while the percentage of young women who marry has fallen dramatically, and out of wedlock child bearing in Japan is almost non-existent.

    But, bad childhood sexual experiences are almost certainly not behind this trend. The women who are not marrying are overwhelmingly doing so because they have successful careers that would be impossible to keep if they married and had kids. Unmarried women suffer remarkably little employment discrimination in Japan, but married women’s careers suffer a great deal of it (from home as well as at work). And, the pool of desirable men has contracted over the course of a prolonged period of economic malaise that have turned the young man who has no career aspirations and still lives at home in a prolonged economic adolescence into an icon of the current generation (the Japanese word for this kind of young man escapes me at the moment). Modern Japan is trending towards having the marriage patterns of an inner city ghetto for similar reasons, but with much more diligent use of condoms.

  • http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp Razib Khan

    Manga also show a strong interest in tentacled aliens penetrating young school girls, but that doesn’t mean that this is common in Japan.

    i didn’t want to get into it…but yeah, that was kind of my thought re: trying to suggest japanese media as representative of real japanese sex practices. i mean, brown hair coloring and eye lid surgery are real common in japan. but is breast augmentation? because looking at manga a lot of those women are very pneumatic. so one needs to be careful….

  • http://www.riverellan.blogspot.com Tom Bri

    Hey Razib, how about dueling polls, one on the ‘ick’ factor for incest and one for homosexuality?
    Be interesting to see how your readers feel when anonymous.

  • http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp Razib Khan

    Hey Razib, how about dueling polls, one on the ‘ick’ factor for incest and one for homosexuality?
    Be interesting to see how your readers feel when anonymous.

    hm. let me think about it. not too sure i want to know how perverted my readers are…. (though i guess since so many are virgins it’s all abstract)

  • http://www.riverellan.blogspot.com Tom Bri

    Ha! Tongue in cheek, I’m sure. Or, no? Besides, if being virgin makes a difference, that would be an interesting factoid in itself. Make that a line in the poll.

  • http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp Razib Khan

    Ha! Tongue in cheek, I’m sure. Or, no? Besides, if being virgin makes a difference, that would be an interesting factoid in itself. Make that a line in the poll.

    ok, what question should i ask?

  • Sandgroper

    If you are still a virgin, is the reason for that because the only person you want to have sex with is (1) your sister, (2) your best friend, or (3) both?

    Tegan and Sara Quin, those cute, entertaining Canadian lesbian homozygous twin pixies, famously can’t stand the thought of touching one another (apart from the occasional bitch-slap), despite (apparently) a lot of people thinking they must get it on together, or that they must have been each other’s first lover, or whatever. Nope.

    One of them said “Why would I want to have sex with someone who looks exactly like me?” (ignoring the tattoos). But I think she has missed the point (and overlooked Mick and Bianca Jagger) – having probably been closer as kids than most, and still together, they are likely to feel even more revulsion about it than most siblings, I would have thought, if that’s possible.

  • http://www.scholars-stage.blogspot.com T. Greer

    If the dominance of the ideal of monogamy is a contingent accident of history, will be see a shift toward greater pluralism in the near future, with the decline of the West?

    I very much doubt so. In the recent “What is this Western culture you speak of” comment thread someone suggested one of the simplest definitions of ‘Western culture’ is any culture that has been sig. impacted by the cultural heritage of Athens & Jerusalem. The commentor pointed out that this def. might make many a conservative nervous, as it implies that a great deal of the world has become functionally ‘Western’. The implications of this are worth a moment’s pause. Cultural ‘stickiness’ (for lack of a better word) has never been perfectly correlated with power – Europe would not be Christian now if it was, aye? And look at those places that will gain the most with the West’s decline – in which is monogamy not the norm for both the people and the elite?

  • diana

    Razib,

    “you’ve explained it yourself. ”

    You are too kind.

    The “familiarity breeds desexualization” doesn’t explain this instant eroticization that brothers and sisters seem to exhibit to a greater degree than any old stranger. Admittedly I am concluding a lot from a small sample. But I think there is something “there.” Incest taboos are strong because there is something to guard against: the potentially explosive eroticization of brother sister relationships, which might happen more often if they weren’t so socially disapproved of.

  • åse

    This turned up in my Facebook Feed, from APS (American Psychological Society).

    Daughters and Dads

    (I hope I get the link to work – my favorite hangout automates these things, and I snatched it from there).

    Anyway, supposedly research showing that daughters don’t call their dads when they are ovulating.

  • http://www.riverellan.blogspot.com Tom Bri

    How about:

    Do you feel ‘ick’ when you think of incest?

    1) Yes, a lot
    2) Yes, some
    3) Not really
    4) No, certainly not

    Bonus question: Are you a virgin?

    1) Yes
    2) No
    3) Heck no (heh heh)

    Wash and rinse for homosexuality.

  • Chuck

    “If the dominance of the ideal of monogamy is a contingent accident of history, will be see a shift toward greater pluralism in the near future, with the decline of the West?”

    Edit: “will we.”

  • http://www.accidentalblogger.typepad.com Ruchira

    Razib, my question is not about incest but polygamy in the Indian subcontinent . Do you know if its legal practice is more prevalent among Indian Muslims than in Pakistan or Bangladesh? Is polygamy even permitted under Pakistani law?

  • http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp Razib Khan

    Do you know if its legal practice is more prevalent among Indian Muslims than in Pakistan or Bangladesh? Is polygamy even permitted under Pakistani law?

    i think it is in most muslim nations. it’s in the shariah. i know that mahathir mohammed in malaysia promoted an anti-polygamy campaign, but he couldn’t ban it outright on the federal level. i don’t know where it’s more prevalent. i spent 10 minutes looking, but much harder to find stuff on this than inbreeding. i know that cousin marriage is way less common in bangladesh than pakistan, or among north indian muslims. i would assume that the trend is the same.

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This blog is about evolution, genetics, genomics and their interstices. Please beware that comments are aggressively moderated. Uncivil or churlish comments will likely get you banned immediately, so make any contribution count!

About Razib Khan

I have degrees in biology and biochemistry, a passion for genetics, history, and philosophy, and shrimp is my favorite food. In relation to nationality I'm a American Northwesterner, in politics I'm a reactionary, and as for religion I have none (I'm an atheist). If you want to know more, see the links at http://www.razib.com

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